Training.

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Postby plebayo » October 15th, 2009, 10:13 am

Yay LiLo got a B! [28pts]

Seth would fail because he jumps on people, he chews on things, he digs holes, he now jumps the fence so it's not worth it to bother with him hahaha.

Based off of everything they asked LiLo's only hangup is Barking at people on occasion.

I think Bark Busters is better than no training at all. At least it makes a person try to get help, and try to fix a problem. A lot of that stuff that they asked has to do with the whole 'nothing in life is free policy' which more people need to know about.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 15th, 2009, 10:18 am

Holy crap, Inara actually got a B - "50: Dogs in this category are typically wonderful family dogs with a few rough edges. This dog could easily move to the "A" grade with some training."

I wish they hadn't emailed my results to my local trainer as I won't use Bark Busters.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 15th, 2009, 10:21 am

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Holy crap, Inara actually got a B - "50: Dogs in this category are typically wonderful family dogs with a few rough edges. This dog could easily move to the "A" grade with some training."


:shock:

Now Score is really crying. He got beaten by BOTH Inaras...what is this world coming to?

:giggle:
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 15th, 2009, 5:23 pm

furever_pit wrote:LOL
I understand that the method does work with some dogs, I'm not disputing that. I just prefer not to use them on my dogs. For one, I know both my dogs would think it was a toy. And two, I don't like to encourage noise sensitivity in my working dogs.



Dont worry about the noise sensitivity thing. The Bark Busters method is all about finding a solution that works with YOUR dog, so they modify the training techniques to fit you and your pets. Seriously! No worries!
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Postby katiek0417 » October 15th, 2009, 5:37 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:
furever_pit wrote:LOL
I understand that the method does work with some dogs, I'm not disputing that. I just prefer not to use them on my dogs. For one, I know both my dogs would think it was a toy. And two, I don't like to encourage noise sensitivity in my working dogs.



Dont worry about the noise sensitivity thing. The Bark Busters method is all about finding a solution that works with YOUR dog, so they modify the training techniques to fit you and your pets. Seriously! No worries!


Ummm...yeah...but the point is, we have working dogs...Bark Busters doesn't train working dogs...in fact, they would probably cringe if they saw us actually training our dogs to bite people lol
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 15th, 2009, 6:34 pm

Well yeah, that's different. why would you be training a dog to bite someone anyway? Isn't that sortof adding to the problem? I mean... I don't know these things, but if I were the JQP and I read that someone was training a dog to bite, I think I'd really get the impression we're all trying to fight against here... you know? maybe I'm way off... but I just think dogs shouldn't be trained to bite or attack at all. Like... maybe if it's a police dog or military dog... but that's it. Because in those cases I understand the utility. But... a dog owned by a private individual who isn't responsible for the safety and security of the public training a dog to bite? that's not really cool to me...

What do you guys do? I'm asking in all sincere honesty. I'm curious in what field it's necessary to train a dog that way so that I don't make an ignorant statement?

Thanks!
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 15th, 2009, 6:43 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Well yeah, that's different. why would you be training a dog to bite someone anyway? Isn't that sortof adding to the problem? I mean... I don't know these things, but if I were the JQP and I read that someone was training a dog to bite, I think I'd really get the impression we're all trying to fight against here... you know? maybe I'm way off... but I just think dogs shouldn't be trained to bite or attack at all. Like... maybe if it's a police dog or military dog... but that's it. Because in those cases I understand the utility. But... a dog owned by a private individual who isn't responsible for the safety and security of the public training a dog to bite? that's not really cool to me...

What do you guys do? I'm asking in all sincere honesty. I'm curious in what field it's necessary to train a dog that way so that I don't make an ignorant statement?

Thanks!


Because it's a fun sport... :wink: I would so be doing bitework and such with my guys if I had the time and energy.
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Postby katiek0417 » October 15th, 2009, 6:55 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Well yeah, that's different. why would you be training a dog to bite someone anyway? Isn't that sortof adding to the problem? I mean... I don't know these things, but if I were the JQP and I read that someone was training a dog to bite, I think I'd really get the impression we're all trying to fight against here... you know? maybe I'm way off... but I just think dogs shouldn't be trained to bite or attack at all. Like... maybe if it's a police dog or military dog... but that's it. Because in those cases I understand the utility. But... a dog owned by a private individual who isn't responsible for the safety and security of the public training a dog to bite? that's not really cool to me...

What do you guys do? I'm asking in all sincere honesty. I'm curious in what field it's necessary to train a dog that way so that I don't make an ignorant statement?

Thanks!


Well, first, just to clear something up, I don't own pits...I own malinois, dutch shepherds, and a lab.

My dogs are trained in personal protection and sport work (and I have with whom I have to complete his training in drug detection so that we can contract out to schools, etc). In all reality, if you are training a dog to bite, you are also training the dog to do very tight obedience. In essence, the bite command is just an obedience command. These dogs are MUCH different than attack dogs. My trained dogs won't attack willy nilly, they wait for commands.

In addition, most dogs that do bitework are 100% social - this includes police and military dogs....what is the point of having a personal protection dog that you have to put away whenever someone comes over?

Just to demonstrate the level of obedience that my dogs have (or are working towards)...this is me and my top male, Cy, competing at last year's PSA Nationals - I know many others on here who have or are working towards this same type of level of obedience:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjx0J9uH7Kg

And this is Cy and I doing bitework:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uNLe6RY7L8

For the personal protection side, I don't have anything against guns...I own a gun...but I can't call back a bullet. I can't deploy a bullet in hopes that it will "search" my house for a perp...these are both things I can do with a dog.

For the sport work, it's just a fun thing to do with my dogs! Interestingly enough, just about a week ago, there was an episode of NCIS that had a special appearance by 2 malinois. The handler also made a cameo. I know the handler/owner (Tom Roach), and I have had the privilege to meet his top dog, Bullet. He is very social! VERY! And he's titled in the top level of the sport in which I compete...his dogs have been in several films...and now prime time TV!

TheRedQueen wrote:Because it's a fun sport... :wink: I would so be doing bitework and such with my guys if I had the time and energy.


And I know we'd LOVE to have you come out!!! :dance:
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Postby furever_pit » October 15th, 2009, 6:59 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Well yeah, that's different. why would you be training a dog to bite someone anyway? Isn't that sortof adding to the problem? I mean... I don't know these things, but if I were the JQP and I read that someone was training a dog to bite, I think I'd really get the impression we're all trying to fight against here... you know? maybe I'm way off... but I just think dogs shouldn't be trained to bite or attack at all. Like... maybe if it's a police dog or military dog... but that's it. Because in those cases I understand the utility. But... a dog owned by a private individual who isn't responsible for the safety and security of the public training a dog to bite? that's not really cool to me...

What do you guys do? I'm asking in all sincere honesty. I'm curious in what field it's necessary to train a dog that way so that I don't make an ignorant statement?

Thanks!


Both my boys train in Schutzhund. It's a three phase sport - tracking, obedience, and protection. I do it because I enjoy it and because my dogs enjoy it. My big boy, Dylan, LIVES to train. And for those of us who train to compete, it's not like it's just training a dog to bite/attack with no boundaries. You can put A LOT of control on a dog and IMHO a dog's bitework is most impressive when it is matched with stellar obedience.
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Postby katiek0417 » October 15th, 2009, 7:19 pm

furever_pit wrote:Thanks!

Both my boys train in Schutzhund. It's a three phase sport - tracking, obedience, and protection. I do it because I enjoy it and because my dogs enjoy it. My big boy, Dylan, [b]LIVES to train[/b]. And for those of us who train to compete, it's not like it's just training a dog to bite/attack with no boundaries. You can put A LOT of control on a dog and IMHO a dog's bitework is most impressive when it is matched with stellar obedience.


I wish I liked tracking...if I did, I would do Sch in a heartbeat...I admire you for that!

And yes, you're right, our dogs LIVE to train...when they don't train they're miserable...and you can tell!
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Postby mnp13 » October 15th, 2009, 10:23 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:What do you guys do? I'm asking in all sincere honesty. I'm curious in what field it's necessary to train a dog that way so that I don't make an ignorant statement?


What do I do? I work at a billing company.

It's not "necessary" to train my dog for bite work, I do it because it's fun and I don't think it's a bad idea to have trained protection dogs in the house. That's 'Ol Lockjaw himself in my avatar.
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Postby DemoDick » October 15th, 2009, 10:30 pm

My APBT is a very highly trained Personal Protection dog. A practical biter. When JQP sees him, they don't see "dangerous dog," they see control under stress and distraction. He is the perfect counter to the argument that Pit Bulls are good for nothing but dog fighting.

We have changed a lot of minds. It's hard to argue against observable results.

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Postby DemoDick » October 15th, 2009, 10:44 pm

For reference, this is what I'm talking about. The decoy petting him in the beginning? He was biting him immediately before we shot this clip. Clear-headed, precise control under extreme stress and distraction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRyau9byvJk

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Postby maberi » October 15th, 2009, 11:31 pm

moved to other thread
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 12:46 pm

DemoDick wrote:For reference, this is what I'm talking about. The decoy petting him in the beginning? He was biting him immediately before we shot this clip. Clear-headed, precise control under extreme stress and distraction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRyau9byvJk

Demo Dick



Very nice training. Very nice indeed. You're using command words I'm not familiar with. I've noticed my Megumi loves training as well, but I'm not sure I want to do this kind of thing with her. I've no purpose for it since I'm not a cop or anything like that.

My girlfriend and I have discussed finding Megumi a "mission." She's responded really well to her training thus far, and we know she has it in her to do something fun similar to this. Shutzhund? What's that all about? Or, are there other sort of things that are 'pit bull safe?'

Wordings.
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 1:03 pm

"Hey, so back to.. uh... talking happy? I'm interested in finding a training group who can help me train Megumi to have a mission in life. She's really interested in and good at finding things. She'll sniff out little things here and there if we hide them and give her a scent, etc. I realize it's not what's in the breed, but she seems to really enjoy doing search things. We haven't really started doing it with her on command or anything, but hiding treats for her to find after a good walk seems to have indicated that she really could be good at it."

I transferred that from the other thread. I figured it's better here anyway.

Thanks!
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Postby maberi » October 16th, 2009, 1:45 pm

Check out AKC or Schutzhund tracking

If it is something you are interested in getting into, check out the yahoo forum on tracking

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tracking_Dog/

There is a lot of useful information for handlers new to the sport as well as experienced handlers. Just a fair warning. Tracking requires a LOT of training and patience
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 1:50 pm

maberi wrote:Check out AKC or Schutzhund tracking

If it is something you are interested in getting into, check out the yahoo forum on tracking

http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Tracking_Dog/

There is a lot of useful information for handlers new to the sport as well as experienced handlers. Just a fair warning. Tracking requires a LOT of training and patience


Perfect! Thank you, I'm so excited.

Time is something I have a lot of, and with my dog... patience is abundant. Maybe I'll keep a training log? I dunno. We'll see how everything evolves.

Good info though, thanks a bunch!
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Postby furever_pit » October 16th, 2009, 1:55 pm

I am a HUGE fan of training logs for tracking. I keep one for each of my dogs. I like it because I can keep better track of weather conditions, how long I am aging the track, the distance and shapes of the track, etc. I can also make notes about each dog's performance and what we need to work on. I learned to keep a log at the very first tracking seminar I went to. So I think that's a really good idea.
Tracking is hard work but is very rewarding so I say go for it!

As for Schutzhund, it was developed as the breed test for the GSD, but many other breeds participate now. IMO it is a good test for any working breed of dog prior to being bred.
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Postby katiek0417 » October 16th, 2009, 1:56 pm

maberi wrote:moved to other thread


what is this other thread, and why can't I find it?
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