maberi wrote:Maybe someone with more experience in this field can comment but when I had the chance to view some dogs and handlers doing bitework training I found that the police dogs were much less responsive to commands from their handlers.
Once the dogs were sent off and went for the bite they were very not the most responsive dogs when their handlers called them off. Now I can see how this wouldn't be a problem because if an officer has made the decision to release their dog on someone they have made the determination that the individual is a threat.
Is it uncommon for a police officer to send their dog and then call the dog off before a bite? I also heard one of the officers comment that many times when they are yelling stop fighting/resisting when the dog is biting, it is because they can't get their dog to release and are covering their asses. Not sure if this comment was made in jest or there is some truth to it
katiek0417 wrote:Actually, you tell someone to stop fighting b/c a dog won't out if someone is fighting it. When a person is fighting the dog, it instills the dog's desire to fight (a combination of defense and prey) - dogs aren't trained to out off of a moving decoy...
pitbullmamaliz wrote:katiek0417 wrote:Actually, you tell someone to stop fighting b/c a dog won't out if someone is fighting it. When a person is fighting the dog, it instills the dog's desire to fight (a combination of defense and prey) - dogs aren't trained to out off of a moving decoy...
At the DSO (yeah, all my protection dog experience is related to the DSO, or Michelle and Demo's dogs!), at the intermediate (I believe), but definitely at the advanced, the decoys were specifically told to NOT stop moving when the dog was ordered to out. So the decoys were still moving around and struggling and the dog still had to let go - some of them needed some persuasion, but there were a few that immediately did. Blew my mind!
maberi wrote:Totally understand what you are saying Katrina but my natural reaction when being bitten by a dog is to pull away, which I would assume to a dog would equate to fighting (tugging, etc..). How can you expect a person being bitten by a dog to sit still?
pitbullmamaliz wrote:I'm sure if somebody was truly being attacked, they wouldn't tell their dog to out off their attacker if he was still attacking. The dogs were definitely not outing without being told to first. This was just a competition and it was one of the challenges. Quite frankly, I thought it was damned impressive.
My only problem with that is why would I want my dog to out on someone still fighting it? In the real world, if my dog outs on a person fighting it, then that person could get the upper hand....why in God's name would I EVER want my PERSONAL PROTECTION dog to lose the upper hand in a fight??? (That's JMO, but I just spoke to Greg, and he agreed with me)...
Trust me, Cy will out off a fighting decoy. I trained him to do it...but I trained him to do it more for the control aspect...it's not something I work often...
Malli wrote:I would think in the case of the police dog that they might prefer a dog that was less likely to stop biting? Like they'd rather not have a nice out and haul the dog off and ensure instead the dog will bite and hold? Correct me if I'm wrong...
DemoDick wrote:This:My only problem with that is why would I want my dog to out on someone still fighting it? In the real world, if my dog outs on a person fighting it, then that person could get the upper hand....why in God's name would I EVER want my PERSONAL PROTECTION dog to lose the upper hand in a fight??? (That's JMO, but I just spoke to Greg, and he agreed with me)...
Lies in direct contrast with this:Trust me, Cy will out off a fighting decoy. I trained him to do it...but I trained him to do it more for the control aspect...it's not something I work often...
So which is it?
Outing a dog on an active decoy does not give the decoy the "upper hand". Unless the decoy is armed he will never have the upper hand. He's going to get another bite real quick if he does something stupid. And no one is able to freeze like a suited or sleeved decoy in a real scanrio. Pain hurts.
I could provide a number of scenarios in which it is necessary for a dog to out cleanly on an active decoy. Some of which are dangerous for the handler should the dog fail to comply. Out means out.
Demo Dick
Malli wrote:Malli wrote:I would think in the case of the police dog that they might prefer a dog that was less likely to stop biting? Like they'd rather not have a nice out and haul the dog off and ensure instead the dog will bite and hold? Correct me if I'm wrong...
*ahem* anyone
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