We got very bad news about Vincenzo

Here is where we can discuss canine cancers and treatment options to create a support system for those dealing with the disease.

Postby HappyChick » July 27th, 2009, 3:04 pm

Oh Christine,

I don't know how you made it through. I can't imagine losing two of my children within two days and both to cancer. I remember some of Mick's story from last summer, but honestly, I tried to stay away from the Canine Cancer section of this forum because so often the stories made me cry. Now I'm here with my own story. I f'ing hate it. I hate that Vinny is sick, I hate that anyone ever has to suffer or watch a loved one suffer, I hate that we have to lose them too soon.

Thank you for your offer to help with my questions and for sending us good thoughts. My wish for you is that your life is again filled with many blessings, you certainly deserve it after all that you've been through.

Angie
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 3:20 pm

Thanks, Angie. :)

Just remember that you and Vinny have a great big cheering section here at PBT, that there is never a "dumb" question except the one you don't ask, and that - despite the diagnosis - you and Vinny must "live in the moment" as much as possible. Have fun, do things he enjoys as often as he's capable, and fight the good fight.
I'll be keeping you all in my thoughts. :hug3:
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby HappyChick » July 27th, 2009, 5:01 pm

I do have a question...

Did or do you all consult your veterinarian before making any changes to your dog's diet including supplements you give to help fight the cancer?

I talked to our Vet today about what I fed Vinny yesterday and she seemed kind of "funny" about it. She said not to feed him pork because it might cause Pancreatitis and I got the impression she didn't care for the fact that I'd gone out on my own to research. I don't know, maybe it's my imagination. I wanted to consult her first before giving it to him, but it was Sunday, he was about out of canned food, and I wanted him to eat something healthy for him. He will not be getting his regular dog food ever again. She did suggest I get beef fat rather than pork fat. He also needs low protein and low sodium at the moment because of the kidney issue. For now he will be eating more Science Diet k/d and n/d mixed until the kidney problem is resolved. The Vet does not have cancer supplements available, but I plan to consult her before giving him any of those.

Thanks.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby pocketpit » July 27th, 2009, 5:12 pm

Did or do you all consult your veterinarian before making any changes to your dog's diet including supplements you give to help fight the cancer?


No! As a matter of fact I got "fired" as a clinet from the internest my clinic initially referred me to :D I could tell during out initial consultation that she did not approve of my feeding choices (strictly home made cancer diet) and decision to use supplements. Prior to Brook's chemo treatement with them, a friend brought me a nice chunk of lamb as a present for Brooks and I allowed her to eat the whole thing. At the end of the treatments she vomited once and then had some diarrhea. They totally freaked out when I told them why she probably vomited and I was promptly told to not come back.
Honestly I was told by several other internal medice people since then that people should be considering diet changes and supplements. Most human cancer patients are urged to seek out alternative therapies to use in conjunction with traditional chemotherapy so why wouldn't pets benefit from the same?
User avatar
pocketpit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1201
Location: WA

Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 5:14 pm

Micks Oncologist was VERY happy when she found out that Mick was already on a RAW diet... I never fed a lot of pork though because it caused him to have the most horrible gas... lol

I think, especially in case of cancer, a grain-free diet is the best way to go. The less carbs and artificial crap, the better... does that make sense?
The only thing I added was a little "potion" Dee sent me, and Missing Link w/glucosamine.

Here's a good "starter topic" if that's something you might be interested in doing... viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15169

Not all vets are familiar w/the benefits of RAW for dogs, and most won't recommend it... however, it's ultimately up to you to do what you think is best for YOUR dog. :wink:
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby amazincc » July 27th, 2009, 5:16 pm

HappyChick wrote:I
Did or do you all consult your veterinarian before making any changes to your dog's diet including supplements you give to help fight the cancer?


My regular vet wasn't a big fan of anything other than what she sold at her office. :|
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby CinderDee » July 27th, 2009, 7:48 pm

HappyChick wrote:Dee - Thank you so much for your post! I will check out the links and food suggestions right away. I hope Kato continues to do well.



Thanks so much. :)

I didn't discuss Kato's food and supplements with his Oncologist. I used a woman who specializes in canine cancer for help with supplements, homeopathic remedies & food.

This is something that I keep meaning to get for Kato. My understanding is that it's the most important ingredient in transfer factor.
http://theholisticvet.com/ip6.html (IP6)

:goodthoughts: :goodthoughts: :goodthoughts:
Dee
User avatar
CinderDee
I'm The Bug Whisperer
 
Posts: 3414
Location: Forever in my heart...

Postby HappyChick » July 28th, 2009, 7:16 pm

amazincc wrote:I think, especially in case of cancer, a grain-free diet is the best way to go. The less carbs and artificial crap, the better... does that make sense?


Yes, this makes sense! The diet for my adrenal fatigue is similar.

The only thing I added was a little "potion" Dee sent me, and Missing Link w/glucosamine.


I'd like more information about this potion. Is it only if I'm feeding RAW?

Here's a good "starter topic" if that's something you might be interested in doing... viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15169


Wonderful information in that thread! Many thanks from me to Ellie@ny for the information and thank you Christine for sending it my way!

Vinny and I both had a really good day yesterday. Unfortunately, we both over did it a bit and are tired today. We are still waiting on the test results. Hopefully tomorrow we will find out exactly what type of cancer it is and will schedule treatment. We are looking at Chemo that will be shot directly into his chest and "swished" around to kill the cancer cells and dry up any fluid. This will be done in conjunction with giving him Prednisone. Have any of you heard of this before? Dr. Blakeley is treating a patient with this same protocol right now and is pretty positive about it.

Again, many thanks to you all.

Ang and Vin
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby HappyChick » July 28th, 2009, 7:19 pm

CinderDee wrote:I used a woman who specializes in canine cancer for help with supplements, homeopathic remedies & food.


Does she have a website? :mrgreen:
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby amazincc » July 28th, 2009, 7:23 pm

HappyChick wrote: We are looking at Chemo that will be shot directly into his chest and "swished" around to kill the cancer cells and dry up any fluid. This will be done in conjunction with giving him Prednisone. Have any of you heard of this before? Dr. Blakeley is treating a patient with this same protocol right now and is pretty positive about it.


Uhm... nope, never heard of that before... and no offense to Dr. Blakeley, but is he/she an Oncologist or a "regular" vet? :?

Dee's "potion" was a powder, so if you don't feed RAW you'd have to mix it into some wet food. She can probably tell you more about it. :wink:
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby HappyChick » July 28th, 2009, 8:17 pm

amazincc wrote:
HappyChick wrote: We are looking at Chemo that will be shot directly into his chest and "swished" around to kill the cancer cells and dry up any fluid. This will be done in conjunction with giving him Prednisone. Have any of you heard of this before? Dr. Blakeley is treating a patient with this same protocol right now and is pretty positive about it.


Uhm... nope, never heard of that before... and no offense to Dr. Blakeley, but is he/she an Oncologist or a "regular" vet? :?


As far as I know she is a regular Vet who has quite a bit of experience with Chemo. She works to some extent with the University of Illinois, which I understand has a great Department of Veterinary Medicine. I moved my dogs to this vet clinic a few months ago because I decided I really didn't like the clinic they had been going to. Dr. B has a good reputation and realistically, this the only decent choice we have locally. Thank you Christine, because your question really opened my mind to some things I hadn't thought about. I'm not thinking straight because I'm so overwhelmed right now. Now I plan to ask a lot more questions before we start treatment. Thank you.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby amazincc » July 28th, 2009, 9:27 pm

Well, I'm not a vet... but "swishing" a potentially dangerous chemical around after injecting it directly into the chest to kill cancer cells and dry up fluid... hmmm. I would do a LOT more research before agreeing to that.
I would also wait for a definite diagnosis, since different cancers can have different treatment protocols.
IF Vinny has lymphoma having him on Prednisone now is actually not a good idea, because it can reduce the effectiveness of chemo therapy. That's why I personally think a consult w/a certified Oncologist is your best option right now, if at all possible.

Not knocking your doctor at all, but sometimes a specialist can offer other info/ideas/treatment plans... since they specialize in their field(s) and deal w/those specific issues/situations on a daily basis.

Administering the actual chemo drugs can be done by any vet tech, realistically... but I think, especially in cases of cancer, it's important to involve someone who is very experienced in the treatment and care of dogs with cancer.

Hope this isn't too overwhelming, but... we want Vinny to get better ASAP! :wink: :hug3:
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby amazincc » July 28th, 2009, 9:40 pm

Here are some links to explain lymphoma and "standard" treatments...

http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 38&aid=459

http://www.caninecancer.com/Lymphoma.html

http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/deptsOncology/owners/lsa.aspx

Mick was a borderline "Stage3/4" when he was diagnosed... his organs failed ten months after the first initial treatment. :sad2: :cry:
But, let me tell you... he LIVED for those ten months after being diagnosed... he lived, and we made each and every day count. :)
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby HappyChick » July 28th, 2009, 10:11 pm

amazincc wrote:IF Vinny has lymphoma having him on Prednisone now is actually not a good idea, because it can reduce the effectiveness of chemo therapy. That's why I personally think a consult w/a certified Oncologist is your best option right now, if at all possible.


Christine, again I really want to thank you for asking the important questions and bringing up important points! Keep them coming because I want to do what is best for Vinny so that means thoughtful consideration!

Well let me tell you how the convo about Predinisone went. I'll try to include as much as I can, but I will probably leave out something. She told us that if we went with strictly Prednisone, Then decided we wanted to start Chemo at a later date, the effectiveness of the chemo would be cut significantly. Then I asked her if it would hurt while we are waiting on the lab diagnosis to go ahead and start him on Prednisone to get him eating again and maybe feeling a little better. She clarified that if we did Prednisone treatment only for like three months, for instance, then decided on Chemo, that would cut the effectiveness significantly (I think she said it would be cut in half), BUT that doing the Pred for just a few days while waiting on the lab results would be beneficial in that he could start eating again and feeling better, but for that short term should not effect the Chemo which we plan to start as soon as we know for sure that it is Lymphoma (probably in the next day or two). I asked about giving the Pred now. Vin had lost about 10 pounds at that point last Saturday and almost completely refused to eat. I had tried just about everything I could think of to get him to eat and he was on anti nausea meds because of the kidney medicine, it just wasn't happening. No food + no nutrients = going down hill fast. So, Prednisone at this time is a risk I'm willing to take. What do we have to lose? AND it's working! He is eating healthy food(Don't tell Dr. B, but Vin had THE recipe again tonight and ate probably about 1 1/2 to 2 cups, but also along with eating the Science Diet earlier today). Tonight is the most he has eaten at one time, usually he eats maybe 1/2 cup of other food at a time. Keep in mind too that Vinny's normal weight is around 75 pounds and he has never been fluffy. He is normally a pretty big guy. I really, really, really hope we find out that diagnosis tomorrow.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby HappyChick » July 28th, 2009, 10:32 pm

amazincc wrote:But, let me tell you... he LIVED for those ten months after being diagnosed... he lived, and we made each and every day count. :)


Knowing what I do of you and Mick from this forum, I don't doubt for an instant that your statement is the absolute truth. This is what I want for Vinny too. Believe me, I do NOT believe in keeping him around just because I can't let go. I want what is best for Vin. Period. I didn't post for the forum to see, but on Friday when we saw the mass I was ready to put him down right then. I didn't want him to suffer and I refuse to keep him around without any QUALITY to his life. I had an uncle who died from a brain tumor and his quality of life sucked for months before he finally got peace. My son is the one who had the hope for Vinny at that point, not me. I thought cancer was a death sentence for Vin because of what the "humans" in my family had experienced.

The prednisone is adding quality in my opinion. I will definitely check out the information in the links you provided. I will talk to Dr. B about anything promising I see there. It made sense to me though to put the Chemo into the exact place where the tumor is located because it hits the actual tumor first before (I assume) hitting the good cells in the rest of his body. Does that make sense? My understanding is that Chemo targets the quickly dividing cells in his body so this treatment targets the area where those live. I don't know if I said this earlier, but the mass in Vinny's chest is the only one she found. None of his outer lymph glands are swollen.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby amazincc » July 28th, 2009, 10:51 pm

Aaaahhh... I get it. :)

Yes, in that case it does make sense, since dogs who receive chemo NEED to eat and keep on weight.
I once resorted to a turkey baster to "stuff" Mick... lol

I also never for one minute thought you'd be doing anything other than what's in Vinnys best interest, and I think we're all pretty much on the same page about the quality of life thing. :wink:
Like I said... I'm not a vet and my experience is w/non-localized lymphoma, so that's the only thing I can really talk about while knowing - to some extent - what I'm talking about. :oops:
The day Mick got his diagnosis we immediately went to the Oncologist and they administered an injection instead of giving him Prednisone. Of course, for the life of me, I can't remember the name of the medication. :rolleyes2:

Gah... I hope you get the actual diagnosis ASAP as well... it's always the waiting around that creates tons of un-needed anxiety.
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby HappyChick » July 28th, 2009, 11:18 pm

amazincc wrote: I once resorted to a turkey baster to "stuff" Mick... lol


Oh chocolate! I hope we don't have to do that! BUT, I will if it comes down to it! That's actually a good idea if circumstances call...

Like I said... I'm not a vet and my experience is w/non-localized lymphoma, so that's the only thing I can really talk about while knowing - to some extent - what I'm talking about. :oops:


I asked for your advice and I know there are different types of cancer. I want everything I can get in regard to experience and knowledge from everyone at PBT who has gone thru any type of cancer. I love that you are saying everything you have said so far to me. I want to consider all scenarios and all possibilities. I want to make informed decisions all along the way and I believe that EXPERIENCE IS THE BEST TEACHER. Thank you!




it's always the waiting around that creates tons of un-needed anxiety.


True that! :wink:
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby call2arms » July 28th, 2009, 11:24 pm

I'm sorry about Vincenzo's diagnostic... But you will make your best to do right by him, and that's what counts. I hope you get better, too. :)

As far as U of Illinois, that's where vets go to train to become board-certified oncologists, so I'm sure that as an alumni Dr. B has plenty of resources in the onco department. What kind of sample was sent to the lab for diagnosis?

And not "any vet tech" should manipulate cancer treatment drugs... This stuff is cytotoxic, at least some of it is, in a direct way, and can really be dangerous to handle without care... Some injectable drugs can cause a lot of damage if administered improperly, it's serious business!
“Your birth is a mistake you'll spend your whole life trying to correct.” Chuck Palahniuk


I love pus but I hate people.

I can say words like undifferentiated gonads now!
User avatar
call2arms
Boys Stink
 
Posts: 2349
Location: sunshine, lollipops and rainbows everywhere...

Postby amazincc » July 28th, 2009, 11:29 pm

call2arms wrote:
And not "any vet tech" should manipulate cancer treatment drugs... This stuff is cytotoxic, at least some of it is, in a direct way, and can really be dangerous to handle without care... Some injectable drugs can cause a lot of damage if administered improperly, it's serious business!


Very true... just relaying what my "regular" vet told me. They offered to administer chemo if I didn't want to bring Mick to the Oncologist once a week (pretty far away), but obviously I chose not to go that route. :)
User avatar
amazincc
Jessica & Mick
 
Posts: 9814
Location: Holding them both in my heart.

Postby call2arms » July 28th, 2009, 11:37 pm

It depends which drugs, but some are powerful vesicants that will slough a limb off if going out of a vein by mistake (doxorubricin). Most clinics that I know of prefer not to handle them, although some oral forms are non-toxic and easily given at home because they are efficient only once digested.

Nothing kicks ass like a good oncologist though. There is just sooo much to know about the processes of all different types of cancers, it's crazy.

Do you know which drug Dr. B plans on using?
“Your birth is a mistake you'll spend your whole life trying to correct.” Chuck Palahniuk


I love pus but I hate people.

I can say words like undifferentiated gonads now!
User avatar
call2arms
Boys Stink
 
Posts: 2349
Location: sunshine, lollipops and rainbows everywhere...

PreviousNext

Return to Canine Cancer

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot]