Vomiting

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Postby ma67cpe » April 14th, 2009, 11:14 pm

Well he ate well all day and vomited it all up at 6:30. I'm calling the vet again in the morning and am going to ask about motility. I can't guarantee there is no blockage...he may have eaten something without me knowing. I really don't know what to do at this point. Everything I am trying is not working.
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Postby Marinepits » April 15th, 2009, 6:19 am

Dog_Shrink wrote:What about you Dr. Blabs... what's your take on the Glickman study???


blabsforbullies wrote:As for the raised bowl, when I search VIN, I get one person suggesting it, and another not suggesting it. :| I can't really make a recommendation either way, but would have to say that if all factors are the same, I don't think that the height of the bowl is a major factor. I would be more interested in eliminating other factors in GDV cases, like weight, speed of eating, exercise, etc. I think the jury is out on this one, unfortunately. :nono:


Again, everyone has to do what works for their own dogs in their own situations. If a raised feeder doesn't work for you, don't use it. Since it works for me and Mac has never bloated (even though he's a food/water gulper, and is a large and deep-chested Mastiff mix who loves to do zoomies after eating), I'm going to continue to use it.

Feel free to offer up all the information you want.
Dog_Shrink wrote:I know there has been a lot of controversy surrounding the Glickman study.....
Since you knew this, you should have offered this up as well instead of just picking out the info that proved what you wanted to say. Glickman himself says that a raised feeder may or may not contribute to bloating depending on other factors such as the health of the dog, exercise, breed, etc.
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Postby Marinepits » April 15th, 2009, 6:21 am

ma67cpe wrote:Well he ate well all day and vomited it all up at 6:30. I'm calling the vet again in the morning and am going to ask about motility. I can't guarantee there is no blockage...he may have eaten something without me knowing. I really don't know what to do at this point. Everything I am trying is not working.


:( Wow, I'm sorry to hear you're having such issues with the poor guy. Please let us know what happens.....
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Postby madremissy » April 15th, 2009, 10:04 am

Sending good thoughts today, hopefully the vet can help you. I hope you can get some answers soon.
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Postby BullyLady » April 15th, 2009, 2:17 pm

Dr. Blabs, reglan is the one that works by increasing intestinal peristalsis, correct? Does veterinary medicine use anything like the Sitz-Mark pellets? We do one or two motility studies a year at the hospital I work at, the person takes a Sitz-Mark pellet which has 50 radiopaque rings in it. You count the rings over a course of five days to see how quickly things are moving through the bowels. Just a suggestion for your own practice if you suspect motility problems in any of the dogs you see. :wink: It's a REALLY cool study!

As far as the raised feeders go, my veterinarian is of the opinion that it has no adverse or beneficial effect as far as bloat goes, but that it is better on the joints of a tall or large dog. To bend over to eat is rough on the body, being in a hunched position like that, so especially if the dog already has joint issues it's best that the dog not have to strain their body just to get a meal in.
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Postby KJS » April 15th, 2009, 2:55 pm

Firstly, I hope that you can find out what is causing this and get some relief for your dog...and you

secondly, how on earth did the Dane survive bloat..not just once but twice?...did you use your own bloat kit?...was tacking surgery done after the first time?

thirdly,this quote in the advert for the bowls is assbackwards if you ask me:-
Please note: The Brake-Fast Anti-Bloat Bowl will slide on the floor as your dog eats. As this does make noise, it also aids in the prevention of bloat as it takes longer to eat from a bowl that moves.

If your bowl moves about as you are trying to eat you get frustrated and upset and try to gulp faster and faster to stop it happening...and a dog chasing a moving food bowl in this house would be an accident just about to happen :nono:

I have always used raised food and water bowls for my Saints (and for Dumak too now) and we do allow drinking with or after food...and most importantly we encourage belching with side patting and back rubbing as you would with a baby ...Add actually makes a game of it with them who can belch the loudest/longest...and we praise the great big belches and they seem pleased with us for doing so...
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Postby Dog_Shrink » April 15th, 2009, 3:40 pm

secondly, how on earth did the Dane survive bloat..not just once but twice?...did you use your own bloat kit?...was tacking surgery done after the first time?

My Dane survived because there was no torsion with either bloat, and no I do not have a home bloat kit. One warranted a trip to the emergency clinic and the other resolved itself with some careful monitoring and treatment at home under the advice of my vet. After his second unprovoked bloat he did have a profilactic gasteopexy (SP?) done and between that and putting his bowl back on the floor (which I am a strong believer in now)keeping him lean, and three feedings a day, he hasn't had any more issues with bloat. He definately is a survivor.
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Postby BullyLady » April 15th, 2009, 3:43 pm

Prophylactic gastropexy.

Bloating in and of itself isn't a dangerous thing, humans get bloated all the time, we don't run to the doctor. The torsion is the dangerous part. Now you are almost certainly relieved of worrying that your dane will ever have torsion, the gastropexy is usually a very effective surgery.
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Postby Dog_Shrink » April 15th, 2009, 3:49 pm

Well he just turned 8 this November past and still acts like he's 2 (thanks in part to my 2 year old yellow lab :) ) so I don't think there's any more worries. Just the fact that he can't have the torsion is, in my mind, a grand well spent.
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Postby KJS » April 15th, 2009, 4:04 pm

WOW you have been very luck and yes I would say hes definatley a survivor!

can I ask what led you to putting the bowl up in the first place?

...In the Saint world we read too often of a first time owner with a dead bloated dog and only afterwards do they even seem to know what went wrong...its very sad indeed :(
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Postby Dog_Shrink » April 15th, 2009, 4:29 pm

KJS wrote:WOW you have been very luck and yes I would say hes definatley a survivor!

can I ask what led you to putting the bowl up in the first place?

...In the Saint world we read too often of a first time owner with a dead bloated dog and only afterwards do they even seem to know what went wrong...its very sad indeed :(


It had been the common practice of dane owners for ever ,and I also was using a book written by Jill Swedlow, a renound author in the dane world, as my guide since this was my first dane. She also recommended using elevated feeders. First I heard of the Glickman report was when I took Dauber in for his Gastropexy.
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Postby KJS » April 15th, 2009, 4:34 pm

Back when we decided to put our Saints bowls up...there was not even such a thing made to do this so my Father made a contraption out of metal and wood and painted it all in waterproof paint...it did the job but now we have multi level steel rings that raise the bowls to whatever height you or your dog wishes...fantastic eh?

does your Dane splay his legs wide to eat or simply reach down using his neck more?..also do you put anything under the bowls to stop them moving like a towel or kitchen paper?
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Postby iluvk9 » April 15th, 2009, 6:33 pm

Truman eats from the chair. 8) When he was eating from the ground, (and these are my observations), he would: cough, gasp, make choking-like noises and become agitated... then rush his eating.

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Postby Dog_Shrink » April 15th, 2009, 7:11 pm

KJS wrote:does your Dane splay his legs wide to eat or simply reach down using his neck more?..also do you put anything under the bowls to stop them moving like a towel or kitchen paper?


Dauber doesn't have to splay his legs out like a giraffe to eat :) that would be funny tho... He's only 33 inches at the shoulder so he just reaches it fine by putting his neck down. I have his dish on a carpet sample and in a corner so that neither it, nor he slides since they're on a tile floor. His dish has a concave shape to it so it's like a half a basketball not flat like a crock. He doesn't have to wrestle and do a lot of licking (which can also promote swallowing air) to get the kibble out. He eats 3 cups 3 times a day (what a PIG!)

Pretty slick the way Truman eats off the Chair. We had taken one of those plastic corner tables and routerd out the circle so his old crock would fit in it. It was about 14 inches high. Now that Dauber is back to eating off the floor, occasionally he will cough if he throws a piece of kibble in his throat the wrong way but other than that he does great!
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Postby ma67cpe » April 16th, 2009, 2:44 pm

Well guys we did good yesterday and all night last night. Had a good BM first thing after waking, and ate 1/2 a normal ration. No more than 10 minutes later, vomit.

He still acted hungry so I called the vet and they said it was ok to feed him a small amount if he was acting like he wanted it. An hour later, I fed him 1/4 ration. He kept that down for 3 hours. :sad2:

The vet says she was trying to see if Max could go 24-48 hrs without vomiting. He can't go 12. They said the next step is a Barium study. Anyone know how much this costs? I'm on a very limited income...I am a full time student and we have been living off my husbands income while I try to finish my degree. I'm not sure how much I am going to be able to afford. What do you do in this situation?? :cry: :cry: :cry:
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 16th, 2009, 2:46 pm

Apply for CareCredit and/or see if your vet will accept payments.
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Postby Marinepits » April 16th, 2009, 3:00 pm

Mac had one done four years ago for a possible blockage (turns out he ate a tennis ball) and it was several hundred dollars at that time -- I wish I could remember exactly. And I think that price included the xrays. The vet should be able to give you an estimate. I second the Care Credit idea, too.

It is a very worthwhile procedure to have done. The tennis ball didn't show up on the xray, but the blockage did show up after the barium was used. The barium only went partway through his intestinal tract before it just stopped at the blockage.
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Postby Marinepits » April 16th, 2009, 3:06 pm

If it's a partial blockage it may or may NOT work it's way out on it's own. If it does do that, the blockage also may cause damage to his digestive tract, depending on what he ate to cause the partial blockage -- anything sharp could possibly tear up his insides as it moves through.

If it's a full blockage, he'll need surgery to remove it or his intestines may rupture and cause major damage with infection and he could die.
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Postby Dog_Shrink » April 16th, 2009, 6:25 pm

One of the biggest tell tale signs that he has a GI blockage is that his vomit will literally smell like poo. If it's not coming out one end it'll come out the other, and he will refuse food altogether after a certain point. The barium test should also show you if it is a GI stasis issue. Since he's still able to pass BM's this doesn't sound like a blockage to me. What kind of BM was it??? Formed? Soft? Runny? Bloody streaked?

I'm still leading towards food allergy. Have you tried the bland diet (hamburger/turkey and rice) with any different results? I'm just afraid you're going to spend the money on a barium test and not get the results you are looking for, esp. if he is still poo'ing and has an appatite. I think that further consultation with your vet or maybe Dr. Blabs can offer a more effective test to better pinpoint what his GI issue is.
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Postby cheekymunkee » April 16th, 2009, 6:48 pm

It can be a partial blockage and in that respect I do think a barium test is warranted because you will want to get it out ASAP if that is the case. Knock the serious stuff out first, if it is clear then worry about the smaller, none life threatening stuff. While it is not a cheap test it is much cheaper than dealing with infection, possible removal of organs and ruptures by putting it off and looking for other answers.
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