Rosettes to Ruin

For those of us that show or want to show our dogs.

Postby mnp13 » March 17th, 2009, 4:45 pm

Yes, it is very common to see heavy dogs here, but "correct weight" is very very subjective.

I'm sorry if your feelings are hurt, but it is undeniable fact that shorter nosed dogs have breathing difficulties. Dogs with over elongated noses have eye problems. ANY extreme causes health problems.

The breed as a whole has serious health problems. Are there athletic EB's out there? Sure, of course. Are they the exception? Yes, and if that makes you upset I don't know what to tell you.

According to OFA, nearly 75% of tested EB's are displastic. That's not indicative of overall structural soundness.
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Postby airwalk » March 17th, 2009, 5:32 pm

K, I think we could go through and note virtually every breed has been screwed up by breeding for consumers and the show ring. There will always be quality dogs and lines out there, but the most common appearance for many breeds is screwed up.

That's not a shot at any breed, that's a fact that when humans get involved and start "playing" with genetics that the original intent and quality for work gets completely lost. Hell I love my DdB's and English Mastiff's and today's lines are too heavy, too big headed and prone to all kinds of dysplasia issues and could no more run as war dogs than the EB's I see.
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 17th, 2009, 10:02 pm

I understand what you're saying, to a point, K...I had a basset hound...a very wonderful girl...who looked more like the old style bassets. Longer legs, shorter ears. She could play flyball, agility, herded sheep, caught frisbees, etc. She tried anything once. Never had an ear infection or back injury in her life. But she was the exception, not the rule. I don't have a basset now, as it's hard to find what I'm looking for...as the breed is sooooo over-done now. :nono:
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Postby ellie@ny » March 19th, 2009, 12:42 pm

KJS wrote:Yes I understand...but really whatever the reason behind the bashing...whether you dont like the dogs or the breeders or the unethical breeders...its done now...I'll just keep quiet about these healthy dogs of mine from now on
Point to note is that most of the dogs I have seen on the US sites are SERIOUSLY overweight( mine are just a little bit taller and heavier than a Staffy Bull)...I know over there the belief is that 'Bigger is Better'...but maybe not so...huh?


Nobody was bashing the breed itself,I think we all just try to say, how sad is it for the breed to become something they're today.They were working dogs once...And trust me it's not just the EB that's ruined...
This is Rosa,they used this bitch 200 years ago for the original standard,does she look like anything that's called today EB?:
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And a big winning dog from today:
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Then a healthier version from today as well/I could live with this version BTW/
Image

This is what happens, when people are not breeding for funtion,they're completly ruin-change a breed forever.And it's not true they only look like this in the US.None of the pics I attached are from the US,but from the original country.
And it's happening to the APBT's too, and many-many other breeds as well.

I would love to see pics of your healthy dogs though. :)
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Postby StalkerBlueDog » March 19th, 2009, 5:06 pm

This by the way is the whole painting that you never see of Crib and Rosa.. There is another dog in the painting..and it is a painting.. not a photograph just as
CribandRosa.jpg
a reminder.
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Postby ellie@ny » March 19th, 2009, 5:50 pm

Yup,sure is a painting..I have the full picture too,but a different version. :)

Image
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Postby demolitionic » March 23rd, 2009, 6:11 pm

ellie@ny wrote:Then a healthier version from today as well/I could live with this version BTW/
Image




Would you happen to know who/where that dog is from?
Time to nut up or shut up.
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Postby ellie@ny » March 23rd, 2009, 10:29 pm

No,sorry...All I know is he lives in the UK and KC registered.
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Postby Dog_Shrink » March 23rd, 2009, 11:02 pm

While most mainstream breeders of bullies such as the English have totally bastardized the breed once known, and loved as it was, it gives light to the more primitive bully breeds that have changed little over the years and have virtually none of the health problems caused by over enthuiastic breeders who like to over exaggerate certain points beyond reckgonition such as the sevearly brachycephalic EB muzzle of today. Don't get me wrong I LOVE EB's, but it seems that the Americans get a hold of a dog and totally ruin it. Look at the german shepherd and the doberman for example or even the bassett. The only way now days to find a good field bassett in the states is to cross it with beagle to get more of the traditional look. But this is about bullies so here are some pics of nice type dogs that you can still find today. The only thing I can think of that would help stop these gross over-exagerated bullie breeders to stop breeding these anomalies is to stop buying that cute little moosh face pup and spred the word about how they suffer because of these deformities. Aside of that... PUSH the primitave breeds :)

Victorian bulldog (I betcha HE can still work)
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Olde English Bulldogge
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Alapaha Blue Blood Bulldog (Actually Georgia USA bred)
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Valley Bulldog
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The Titan Terrier ( can you see the bull terrier roots here??)
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Bantam Bulldogge
Image
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Postby SisMorphine » March 23rd, 2009, 11:16 pm

I wouldn't consider the dogs you posted to be "primitive breeds" . . . and that is coming from an owner/addict of one of them (Alapahas). Those breeds are people attempting to get back to the bulldogs of yore, in most cases. They are new breeds, not primitive breeds, and in many cases (like the Valley and Victorian) are still being bred commonly has F1s and F2s.

And actually there are more Alapaha breeders out there breeding brachiosephalic messy bulldogs than not, which sucks, IMHO.

I am unfamiliar with the Alapaha you posted, BTW, you do know what breeder that dog comes from?
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Postby TheRedQueen » March 24th, 2009, 8:45 am

SisMorphine wrote:I wouldn't consider the dogs you posted to be "primitive breeds" . . . and that is coming from an owner/addict of one of them (Alapahas). Those breeds are people attempting to get back to the bulldogs of yore, in most cases. They are new breeds, not primitive breeds, and in many cases (like the Valley and Victorian) are still being bred commonly has F1s and F2s.


I was thinking the same thing.

That one, the Bantam Bulldogge looks like a Frenchie... :|
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Postby Mickle » March 24th, 2009, 9:00 am

Im curious about that Alapaha as well as I too love me some alapahas!! I also agree with Sis!
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Postby Dog_Shrink » March 24th, 2009, 2:23 pm

What I was meaning by primitive is that not a lot of new blood has been introduced to change the type much from the original foundation stock... not primitive like Pharoah hound and saluki primitive.
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Postby DemoDick » March 24th, 2009, 2:32 pm

Dog_Shrink wrote:What I was meaning by primitive is that not a lot of new blood has been introduced to change the type much from the original foundation stock... not primitive like Pharoah hound and saluki primitive.


I think you're misunderstanding. What's really going on here is that breeders are using existing dogs to re-create working breeds that have gone by the wayside.

They are not "primitive" in that they have existed, unchanged by the show ring. They are in fact modern attempts to re-create what once was, using the dogs available today.

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