my dog's coat is looking...

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby APBTlvr » March 4th, 2009, 9:12 am

...like crap!!! Now officially!!!

I have no idea why this is going on due to the fact that there have been no changes in his environment, food, or anything else.


This picture shows thinning hair on his left hip/waist area and two almost bold spots. These spots used to look like they had a scab on it, but the scab fell and took a piece of hair with it.
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This picture shows a random bold spot inside of his rear leg.
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I mean... what the hell!!! My dog's coat was always so nice, full, shiny and now it looks like crap!

Should I change his food and if I take him off Orijen what would you guys recommend?

Also what do you guys brush your dog with? What about shampoos and conditioners? Should I add some supplements?
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Postby mnp13 » March 4th, 2009, 12:06 pm

I don't regularly brush or bath my dogs, so I don't have any recommendations on that.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to try changing food. What supplements do you give now?
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Postby Marinepits » March 4th, 2009, 12:25 pm

How old is he? Is he scratching at all, or is the hair just thinning out?
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Postby APBTlvr » March 5th, 2009, 9:39 pm

mnp13 wrote:I don't regularly brush or bath my dogs, so I don't have any recommendations on that.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to try changing food. What supplements do you give now?


Supplements as of now - none. I used to give fish oil, flaxseed oil. What would you suggest?
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Postby APBTlvr » March 5th, 2009, 9:43 pm

Marinepits wrote:How old is he? Is he scratching at all, or is the hair just thinning out?

He is 3 years old. He does not seem to be scratching at all and it does not see to bother him. One thing I noticed is right where the bold spots show, he used to have a pimple type of a thing and I popped it, very easy and painless it looked like. Then it turned a bold spot there as well.

Changing food? Too much brushing? What do you guys brush with?
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 5th, 2009, 9:48 pm

APBTlvr wrote:
mnp13 wrote:I don't regularly brush or bath my dogs, so I don't have any recommendations on that.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to try changing food. What supplements do you give now?


Supplements as of now - none. I used to give fish oil, flaxseed oil. What would you suggest?


I'd suggest going back to adding the oils. Winter time can be so drying on their skin
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Postby Marinepits » March 5th, 2009, 9:52 pm

I read back through a few of your older posts, and he's had issues with pimply bumps before, right? Did you ever get him checked out by a vet? If he keeps popping up with the bumps, he may have allergies or be somewhat sensitive to something in his environment. OR, he may have a stubborn bacterial skin infection. Either way, it warrants a vet visit.

If I brush my guys, I use a rubber curry-type brush, like a "zoom groom". I tend to not bathe them in the winter because the air is SO dry here that it's not worth drying their skin out any more than I have to. In the warmer months, I bathe them when they look exceptionally dirty or smell, so maybe once a month or every six weeks.

Mac and Tucker both have allergies, so they get bathed more often in a medicated shampoo, Chlorhexiderm.
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Postby APBTlvr » March 11th, 2009, 10:57 am

Marinepits wrote:I read back through a few of your older posts, and he's had issues with pimply bumps before, right? Did you ever get him checked out by a vet? If he keeps popping up with the bumps, he may have allergies or be somewhat sensitive to something in his environment. OR, he may have a stubborn bacterial skin infection. Either way, it warrants a vet visit.

If I brush my guys, I use a rubber curry-type brush, like a "zoom groom". I tend to not bathe them in the winter because the air is SO dry here that it's not worth drying their skin out any more than I have to. In the warmer months, I bathe them when they look exceptionally dirty or smell, so maybe once a month or every six weeks.

Mac and Tucker both have allergies, so they get bathed more often in a medicated shampoo, Chlorhexiderm.


I did take him to the vet. They looked at him, did a skin scrape, told me he did not have an infection and basically tried to sell me a shampoo I did not like.

I am thinking maybe a change in food and adding some fish oil would fix the problem. What type of food would you guys suggest? I have fed him Orijen and sometimes I have had him on Innova Evo.
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Postby amazincc » March 11th, 2009, 11:00 am

What's he eating right now???

I think someone (Malli :? ) mentioned that you (as in general you) have to have a dog on any one particular dog food for at least three month when you switch, to see if that food may cause the allergic reaction.
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Postby APBTlvr » March 11th, 2009, 2:14 pm

amazincc wrote:What's he eating right now???

I think someone (Malli :? ) mentioned that you (as in general you) have to have a dog on any one particular dog food for at least three month when you switch, to see if that food may cause the allergic reaction.


He has been eating Orijen forever...with maybe a month or two when he was a pup I fed him different store bought crap like Pedigree (1-2months), then started reading a little more and I switched to Eukanuba (1-2 months), then Solid Gold (1-2 months), then Innova Evo (for a while) and pretty much ever since he turned a year I have had him on Orijen. From time to time I would do a switch back to Innova Evo just to change, but for the last 1 year solid he has been on Orijen.
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Postby APBTlvr » March 11th, 2009, 2:22 pm

APBTlvr wrote:
amazincc wrote:What's he eating right now???

I think someone (Malli :? ) mentioned that you (as in general you) have to have a dog on any one particular dog food for at least three month when you switch, to see if that food may cause the allergic reaction.


He has been eating Orijen forever...with maybe a month or two when he was a pup I fed him different store bought crap like Pedigree (1-2months), then started reading a little more and I switched to Eukanuba (1-2 months), then Solid Gold (1-2 months), then Innova Evo (for a while) and pretty much ever since he turned a year I have had him on Orijen. From time to time I would do a switch back to Innova Evo just to change, but for the last 1 year solid he has been on Orijen.


Oh, and I have had him on Canidae for a month and also on a raw diet (which he did the best one, but it is just such a pain in the butt preparing the raw diet).
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Postby amazincc » March 11th, 2009, 2:33 pm

Have you tried him on ORIJEN 6 FISH yet?
http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/ORIJEN6fish.aspx

A lot of "allergy" dogs do really well on it, because it only has a single-source protein from fish and a single-source carbohydrate from potatoes in the ingredients.
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Postby APBTlvr » March 11th, 2009, 3:21 pm

amazincc wrote:Have you tried him on ORIJEN 6 FISH yet?
http://www.orijen.ca/orijen/products/ORIJEN6fish.aspx

A lot of "allergy" dogs do really well on it, because it only has a single-source protein from fish and a single-source carbohydrate from potatoes in the ingredients.


I have tried him on Orijen fish... for some reason he would not eat it that well...
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Postby APBTlvr » March 18th, 2009, 8:46 pm

Okay... after thinking for a long time what food other than his Orijen to switch him to, I decided to switch him to the Orijen Fish. We got the bag last week and we are still transitioning from the Orijen to the Orijen Fish to see whether that will help his coat a little. I should not give any additional fish oil, right? Any other suggestions?

EDIT: He seems to be eating the Orijen Fish well for now...
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Postby chaddawg » March 21st, 2009, 12:27 am

Is it possible that could be ringworm ?
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Postby APBTlvr » March 21st, 2009, 9:17 pm

chaddawg wrote:Is it possible that could be ringworm ?


I always thought that ring worms make a little "ring" right under the skin... the only thing i can see on his skin right now is receding fur line...
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Postby Marinepits » March 21st, 2009, 10:00 pm

APBTlvr wrote:I always thought that ring worms make a little "ring" right under the skin...


Usually, yes.

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Postby Dog_Shrink » March 22nd, 2009, 3:45 pm

I have a client with a rat terrier with that same situation except his hair loss is on his head. No inflamed skin, no bug bites or allergies just premature balding. The vet said while abnormal it is not caused by a mite and likely winter skin. I do agree that the skin has a TON to do with it. To do a super moisture bath on your dog I recommend (and I do this with my dogs in the middle at the end of every winter) I make a conditioner out of 1 cup mayo, 1-16 oz budwiser beer (full flavor not lite) and an egg. Mix it all up and spread it on your dog. Let it sit and then rinse out after 10 minutes (needless to say for larger dogs double or triple the recipe. I triple it for my dane). If you prefer to follow up with a seperate doggie contitioner to get out the beer stink *s* feel free... just don't let it sit on your dog too long or you'll make the hair real oily.

Like some one else stated be careful when doing food changes to see for allergic reactions. I really don't think it'll take 3 months to see simply because of the nature of hystamine reactions. I would recommend treating the skin first and DON'T pop any more of those pimples if they come up. Human babies get something like that and if you pop them you MAKE IT WORSE because of spreading the affected fluid on the skin (hence the bald spots now where pimples were before).

Lastly Chlorhexaderm is a great shampoo (but can be pricy if I remember right and I could only get it at my vet). I use to use it on my allergy ridden lab all the time with wonderful results. Also sulfa/tar based shampoos are great for skin disorders and tee tree oil or emu oil shampoos. My mom's shih tzu that had bad skin and hair from kidney disease did GREAT on the emu oil shampoo from the groomers. I find oatmeal shampoos just tend to dry things out worse.

Good luck!!! :)
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Postby APBTlvr » March 24th, 2009, 11:40 pm

Dog_Shrink wrote:I have a client with a rat terrier with that same situation except his hair loss is on his head. No inflamed skin, no bug bites or allergies just premature balding. The vet said while abnormal it is not caused by a mite and likely winter skin. I do agree that the skin has a TON to do with it. To do a super moisture bath on your dog I recommend (and I do this with my dogs in the middle at the end of every winter) I make a conditioner out of 1 cup mayo, 1-16 oz budwiser beer (full flavor not lite) and an egg. Mix it all up and spread it on your dog. Let it sit and then rinse out after 10 minutes (needless to say for larger dogs double or triple the recipe. I triple it for my dane). If you prefer to follow up with a seperate doggie contitioner to get out the beer stink *s* feel free... just don't let it sit on your dog too long or you'll make the hair real oily.

Like some one else stated be careful when doing food changes to see for allergic reactions. I really don't think it'll take 3 months to see simply because of the nature of hystamine reactions. I would recommend treating the skin first and DON'T pop any more of those pimples if they come up. Human babies get something like that and if you pop them you MAKE IT WORSE because of spreading the affected fluid on the skin (hence the bald spots now where pimples were before).

Lastly Chlorhexaderm is a great shampoo (but can be pricy if I remember right and I could only get it at my vet). I use to use it on my allergy ridden lab all the time with wonderful results. Also sulfa/tar based shampoos are great for skin disorders and tee tree oil or emu oil shampoos. My mom's shih tzu that had bad skin and hair from kidney disease did GREAT on the emu oil shampoo from the groomers. I find oatmeal shampoos just tend to dry things out worse.

Good luck!!! :)


Wow, thanks for the info, very helpful!

So far I have made some change - switched form regular Orijen to Orijen Fresh Fish & Sea Vegetables kibble and I also purchased Earthbath Aloe & Oatmeal shampoo and Earthbath Creme & Rinse conditioner.

There has been some changes - no more pimples of any kind and instead of flaky skin, I just see the receding hair line spots. Today when I was looking at the spots they even look like they are starting to regrow hair.... I guess let's see...
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Postby APBTlvr » June 4th, 2009, 11:04 am

Okay...

Kai's coat kept getting worse (the symmetrical hair thinning on the side of his hips) and I took him to the vet. They did a skin scrape - no mange. $100 later, the vet told me that they don't know what it is and she thinks it is "just hair loss" - duh, I figured that one myself. She told me to give him 3mg melatonin 3 times a week and see how that goes. Well I gave him melatonin monday and he had a reaction to it (i am assuming having in mind no other changes) and had a tremendous rash underneath.

So he is reacting to the melatonin... he has been eating orijen fish for several months now (switch from regular orijen)... I don't know what to do with this hair thinning thing.

any input?
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