Hemorrhagic GastroEnteritis

[TheRedQueen]

Any thoughts, experiences?

We just got the tests back on the poodle's death (the SD in Training)...and this was the result.

[BullyLady]

So basically an inflamed stomach and intestines that started bleeding?? Sorry, I'm no help, I'm not familiar with it at all.

[BritneyP]

I'm sure Dr. Blabs can give more input, but all I can say is HGE is awful and horrible to witness and deal with... however, most of the dogs I've seen with it came through okay, as long as their owners were willing to foot the bill.

I missed it.. what happened to your SDIT? I'm sorry to hear that..

[TheRedQueen]

I'm sure Dr. Blabs can give more input, but all I can say is HGE is awful and horrible to witness and deal with... however, most of the dogs I've seen with it came through okay, as long as their owners were willing to foot the bill.

I missed it.. what happened to your SDIT? I'm sorry to hear that..

She's was a picky eater all her life, and was anxious about many things. Went to a vacation home while her puppy raiser was on vacation...and ended up not eating at all for a few days. The vet was informed and said, "Force feed her". Due to her picky eating history, no one panicked. The PR came home, picked her up in the evening, by 3 am she was dead.



Her body was taken to the U of MD for a necropsy...and this is what we got back. So no one really knows any more about it still...

[BigDogBuford]

Probably the bigger question is: What caused the hemorrhagic gastroenteritis? I'm wondering if it was secondary to something else.

[BullyLady]

Probably the bigger question is: What caused the hemorrhagic gastroenteritis? I'm wondering if it was secondary to something else.

That's my question too.

[Malli]

with hemorrhagic gastroEnteritis (HGE), there are usually (IME) large amounts of bloody diarrhea, did the dog have this?

A dog can go without food for a long time (much more then days), so that wouldn't have done it unless she had some other preexisting condition (like diabetes), I don't think.

I agree with other things mentioned, she would have had to eat something funky to cause it, like something to cause diarrhea enough to really irritate everything in there, or maybe a medication?

sadly, I'm thinking there was something big that the vacation home missed.

Its not uncommon for people to place more emphasis on one thing in their mind (due to experience or INexperience) and for there to be something that is missed that was entirely more important. (take for instance a cat with urinary blockage; the owner will note that the cat has been vomiting and acting uncomfortable, and will fail to notice until asked that the cat has either been spending large amounts of time in the litter box, been in and out all day, or only be urinating small amounts. To me, the more alarming symptom here would be the lack of urine, for whatever reason, and it IS the more concerning issue generally, but without the knowledge I have I might not know that.)

[BullyLady]

Okay, so I've been mulling this overnight, and I have a thought. It seems to me that HGE isn't actually a cause of death. The pup may have had HGE, but that would cause either death by blood loss or death by malnutrition, wouldn't it? This is only important because if it was death by blood loss then that's something someone probably should have noticed, for that matter you'd think someone would have noticed malnutrition as well. It just all seems very strange to me.

[TheRedQueen]

Thanks for the input...you're reassuring me that something is odd about this. I basically got a "we'll never know" email about the results. I thought that was strange.

I don't remember if the VHP (Vacation Home Provider) said that there was diarrhea or not. It's been over a month now...and I'll have to go back over my emails. I'm leaning towards blaming the regular vet too...as they're the ones that said, "nah, don't bring her in... just force feed her".

The VHP also had another SDiT at her house at the time, along with her own dogs...so she may have just been too busy and missed stuff. I told the others that I didn't think doubling up on VHPs was a good idea...I think that each SDiT should have it's own VHP.

[jmashaney]

I had a Keeshond quite a long time ago that got an Evet diagnosis of HG. He said it was no big deal and to keep her on an easy-to-digest diet for a few days. She was back to normal in a week.

[TheRedQueen]

More info:
(Bleeding of the intestinal tract) that resulted from a bacterial infection from Clostridium Perfringes - a bacteria that is usually present in the GI tract - however in her case it multiplied beyond what it normally is and caused the infection, and bleeding. What caused it to overgrow and cause the bleeding, we don't know and won't ever know.

[Malli]

In that case, I'm almost 100% positive you would have seen diarrhea. Clostridium ain't pretty! Any case of HGE (including my own dog, recently) I've ever nursed has had bloody diarrhea

The odd thing about the E vet's advice is that force feeding when a dog has diarrhea is kind of not done. Generally, one of the first things they'd suggest is to FAST the dog for 24 hrs to help calm down the gut...

[TheRedQueen]

In that case, I'm almost 100% positive you would have seen diarrhea. Clostridium ain't pretty! Any case of HGE (including my own dog, recently) I've ever nursed has had bloody diarrhea

The odd thing about the E vet's advice is that force feeding when a dog has diarrhea is kind of not done. Generally, one of the first things they'd suggest is to FAST the dog for 24 hrs to help calm down the gut...

It wasn't an E vet, it was the regular vet...it was during regular business hours, and they told her not to bring the dog in...just to force feed it if she wasn't eating. I don't remember about the diarrhea...I think she mentioned it, but I don't recall exactly. I'm not pleased with the vet at all.

[blabsforbullies]

HGE is nasty, nasty stuff. And yes, in my experience, it can be secondary to something else.

The first thing that popped into my mind was Addison's disease, where the body doesn't make enough steroids to deal with stressful situations. But, generally, there is not eating, lethargy, possibly some vomiting, and with HGE too, MOST CERTAINLY BLOODY DIARRHEA!!!

Sounds to me like there was another factor from what you have said.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help, but if HGE was the diagnosis, 95% of them are very, very sick and although without treatment, can decline quickly, they usually have more symptoms than what appears to have happened in this case.

[Leslie H]

We lost a pregnant Olde English Bulldog to it. She was due to whelp in 2-3 days, it was very hot mid-summer weather, so when she slowed down a bit we weren't worried. This was when we were irresponsible, and had lots of rural property, no neighbors, so she was just let out when she needed to go to the bathroom. I saw she was looking hot and fatigued, and helped her into the house. I was sitting at our table, she was lying under it panting. Suddenly I smelled this horrible smell, and Euletha was lying under the table, unconscious, having just released this horrible black tarry school. I rushed her to the vet, she had stopped breathing by the time I got there, so I gave her mouth to mouth while I waited for the vet, as much to try to keep the pups oxygenated as to save her. The vet did a quick c-section, all 8 or 9 pups were dead, though we tried to save each one. Then the vet started a necropsy on her.The HGE was obvious, but he was looking for a primary cause in a seemingly healthy young dog.He thought her liver looked jaundiced, and her heart was malformed. He took tissue samples.
The final result was gestational diabetes which left her vulnerable to the bacteria. It's why while I really like Oldes, their health issues are so extreme and frequent that I have real issues w/them as breed. They have a very high rate of HD, also, poor guys. Great temperaments though.