These were dogs that were bred to do police work, not dogs bred for complete human bite inhibition.
When I say kids I am speaking of teens, I should have specified. I do not see PP dogs as a threat to young children. it is the older ones who look like adults but still act like children that I have had issues with.
(emphasis added)My own dogs, who do therapy and are solid with kids, elderly, and in between sometimes react to teens the same way they would to a real threat.
If your dog is trained to ONLY bite on command, I do not see much issue with the dog biting someone unless commanded. However, YOU said the dog needs to be able to percieve a threat without the command, and THIS is where I think there is a safety issue. I am afraid the waters keep muddying as the conversation meanders.
As much as you can say you educate, you are also role models, and you also have stated there are a lot of psycho PP trainers out there. There is no standard to rate them for the average person, and you can always find people willing to vouche for them.
My issue is that if you allow your dog to make his own decisions as to what is a threat, and have taught him to live bite without a command, you better be pretty aware in case he is wrong.
I have looked at Chris' videos and see dogs who are equiptment fixated. I have never seen yours. I actually would feel better knowing they were equiptment fixated. When the decoy steps over the dog and the dog is taking air shots at the bite suit, that tells me that the bite suit is being used as a distraction and reward for the dog.
Can you explain to me if I am wrong what drive is being used there?
Shepherds were bred as war dogs in WWI, nearly 100 years ago. I would prefer the pit not go that direction. In fact if it does, I would start wondering if BSL would maybe be a good idea. They reason they are not dangerous is because of the bite inhibition.
Until I see conclusive, non-anectdotal evidence that pit bulls are cut out for this work and in the average available PP style class do not pose a threat, then I will continue to feel that pits should not be involved in bitework.
Then I wish to see that bite work is not being promoted in inner cities due to seeing it done.
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When I say kids I am speaking of teens, I should have specified. I do not see PP dogs as a threat to young children. it is the older ones who look like adults but still act like children that I have had issues with.
That is not what you wrote. You initially wrote about PP and children (as evidenced by your reference to Chris' video showing young kids) Now you're talking about teens.
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My own dogs, who do therapy and are solid with kids, elderly, and in between sometimes react to teens the same way they would to a real threat.
(emphasis added)
A PP dog, properly trained, would not do this. In my opinion, a therapy dog should not misinterpret teens horsing around as a "real" threat either.
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If your dog is trained to ONLY bite on command, I do not see much issue with the dog biting someone unless commanded. However, YOU said the dog needs to be able to percieve a threat without the command, and THIS is where I think there is a safety issue. I am afraid the waters keep muddying as the conversation meanders.
But I haven't changed what I have been saying. A good PP dog engages on command and has the ability to make the decision to engage without a command. Such a dog is NOT a threat to children, rowdy teens, etc.
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As much as you can say you educate, you are also role models, and you also have stated there are a lot of psycho PP trainers out there. There is no standard to rate them for the average person, and you can always find people willing to vouche for them.
Again, there are idiots everywhere. If Bubba thinks protection work is tying his dog out to a fencepost and working him over with a hose, then we have to do our best to educate Bubba. Bubba's not going to learn if no one teaches him. As far as the public is concerned, they are smart enough to see Rumble and Bubba's dog and make an educated decision as to who knows what they're doing.
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My issue is that if you allow your dog to make his own decisions as to what is a threat, and have taught him to live bite without a command, you better be pretty aware in case he is wrong.
I agree with this statement. You are absolutely right.
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I have looked at Chris' videos and see dogs who are equiptment fixated. I have never seen yours. I actually would feel better knowing they were equiptment fixated. When the decoy steps over the dog and the dog is taking air shots at the bite suit, that tells me that the bite suit is being used as a distraction and reward for the dog.
How can anyone look at such a video and know that the dog is distracted by the suit and not the decoy in it? Rumble also takes what look like cheap shots at Chris when he recalls to heel. He's not nipping at him, he's head butting him. Seeing something first person leaves a lot open for interpretation, video is once removed.
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Can you explain to me if I am wrong what drive is being used there?
No, I can't. Dogs don't work in one drive at a time. They think about a lot of things all at once and size up their situation. At least the good ones do. Which video are you talking about?
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Shepherds were bred as war dogs in WWI, nearly 100 years ago. I would prefer the pit not go that direction. In fact if it does, I would start wondering if BSL would maybe be a good idea. They reason they are not dangerous is because of the bite inhibition.
It is not accurate to say that Pits are "not dangerous" because of human bite inhibition. They can still be plenty dangerous to other dogs when an irresponsible person picks up the leash. And more and more unsound Pits are being bred in backyards across America because they are not being bred for any working purpose. Work requires the proper temperament for it. Herding requires herding temperament and all that entails, and so does PP. Central to PP temperament is stability, clear headedness, and decision making ability.
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Until I see conclusive, non-anectdotal evidence that pit bulls are cut out for this work and in the average available PP style class do not pose a threat, then I will continue to feel that pits should not be involved in bitework.
Give us time.
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Then I wish to see that bite work is not being promoted in inner cities due to seeing it done.
Where the bitework is done has nothing to do with the quality of instruction. A good PP trainer who lives is a city is a better choice than Bubba the hose swinger.
I would encourage you to go to a few events (Chris' would be a good start), check out what is being done with Pits in bitework today and continue to learn. At minimum you will be able to make a more informed decision. You may not change your mind and that's fine, but you will certainly see things that you never considered and learning is never a bad thing.
Romanwild wrote:The difference is training philosophy. The friendly dogs have a off switch the crazy ones don't.
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