This has probably been adressed before...

Postby gayrghts » June 2nd, 2008, 2:08 pm

amazincc wrote:Oh, I guess I misunderstood your question. :wink:
I have a worm-free RAW eater... get his stool checked by the vet every so often. :)


ditto
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Postby call2arms » June 2nd, 2008, 3:18 pm

Tina, you,re absolutely right, that's the most common route, but I believe it's not crazy to think that they can get it from food as well... I don't remember who stated that some dogs got salmonella from kibble, so...
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Postby katiek0417 » June 2nd, 2008, 3:23 pm

call2arms wrote:Thank you! lol (I think it turned into a debate, I know I didn't help...)

And that's great, I know how good Mick is doing!


My dogs get ivermectin every month, at the dose that is used to kill most common worms.

In addition, they get 3 days of panacur about once every other month.

I have 10 dogs, I have to take precautions. Things spread here like wildfire...
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Postby TinaMartin » June 2nd, 2008, 4:04 pm

call2arms wrote:Tina, you,re absolutely right, that's the most common route, but I believe it's not crazy to think that they can get it from food as well... I don't remember who stated that some dogs got salmonella from kibble, so...

Yes it has been stated. The differance between that and raw is the speed at which they are digesed. Kibble takes longer to travel through the system.
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Postby call2arms » June 2nd, 2008, 4:27 pm

Really?
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Postby katiek0417 » June 2nd, 2008, 6:12 pm

call2arms wrote:Really?


yeah...this becomes obvious if you feed raw and kibble at the same time...
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Postby BullyLady » June 2nd, 2008, 6:53 pm

katiek0417 wrote:
call2arms wrote:Really?


yeah...this becomes obvious if you feed raw and kibble at the same time...


Evidenced by the extreme gastrointestinal pain that the dog can feel when the raw tries to bypass the kibble in the digestive system and FAILS. :nono:
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Postby call2arms » June 2nd, 2008, 10:31 pm

Oh, that just sounds awesome. Food fighting through sphincters. :shock:
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Postby TinaMartin » June 3rd, 2008, 8:20 am

I can tell you as a kibble fed dog Gator had terrible trouble with reoccurant worms. I mean loaded. Now that he is on raw no problem. When a raw fed dog is fed it is not the most friendly environment for worms and while they can still get them they dont do as well in the dogs system. That is why you dont see healthy wildlife riddled with them. And yes when Gator had his problems I was worming him regularly.
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Postby Marinepits » June 3rd, 2008, 8:37 am

call2arms wrote:Oh, that just sounds awesome. Food fighting through sphincters. :shock:


:lol3:
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Postby cheekymunkee » June 3rd, 2008, 5:42 pm

gayrghts wrote:
amazincc wrote:Oh, I guess I misunderstood your question. :wink:
I have a worm-free RAW eater... get his stool checked by the vet every so often. :)


ditto


Me too, plus I also use ivermectin every month, which would take care of any worms they may get. But, at last vet check they were all worm free
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Postby Magnolia618 » June 4th, 2008, 7:37 pm

It's funny. My dogs (without fail) poop immediately after they eat their dinners. I'm not sure exactly what this means, but....





And none of them have had worms since being on raw. Fecals - negative.
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Postby call2arms » June 4th, 2008, 9:31 pm

Well, I'm glad to see that there's many worm-free raw dogs!
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Postby DemoDick » June 10th, 2008, 2:34 am

call2arms wrote:Well, I'm glad to see that there's many worm-free raw dogs!


I would wager that raw fed dogs have worms in lower percentages than kibble fed dogs. At least one reason is spurious, as the average person who feeds raw seems to take a keener interest in canine health than the average kibble feeder and is more likely to use a de-wormer.

Never had a problem with worms in my dog and I don't use a dewormer. As stated, the dog is MUCH more likely to get worms from his environment than his food, and his best defense if exposed is a healthy immune system. You also can't compare what wild dogs eat to what a raw fed dog eats. Wild dogs are much more likely to eat from partially spoiled carcasses. I don't know any raw feeder who would even consider feeding spoiled meat.

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Postby BullyLady » June 10th, 2008, 9:53 am

DemoDick wrote:
call2arms wrote:Well, I'm glad to see that there's many worm-free raw dogs!


I would wager that raw fed dogs have worms in lower percentages than kibble fed dogs. At least one reason is spurious, as the average person who feeds raw seems to take a keener interest in canine health than the average kibble feeder and is more likely to use a de-wormer.


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Postby TheRedQueen » June 10th, 2008, 9:56 am

cheekymunkee wrote:Me too, plus I also use ivermectin every month, which would take care of any worms they may get. But, at last vet check they were all worm free


:shock: As an Aussie owner, that statement just terrifies me... :shock:

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Postby call2arms » June 10th, 2008, 2:45 pm

Err, Demo, it doesn't have to do with what food you feed, I know you believe that feeding raw is best, but it doesn't mean that people who feed kibble are less concerned about their pet's health (unless they're feeding Ol'Roy or something), plus some people who are feeding raw at work have been coming for blood tests and at least two showed imbalance in Calcium and Phorphorus or Potassium (can't remember which), so not every raw feeding owner actually feeds properly, with the right balance. That's a HUGE concern with raw, IMO. Uninformed people with raw can totally screw up their dog's health/growth if not doing it properly, as can crappy kibble do.

As long as people see a vet, usually they deworm... Most dogs on HW preventative are also dewormed, around here 6 months a year and in the south, all year round... No matter what they eat, so it really has nothing to do with diet. We automatically give fenbendazole to new puppies - most of the ones coming from byb's and pet stores are riddled with them.

Gee, good horse owners deworm 3 times a year at least, and horses usually aren't too keen on raw meat, lol.

Edited cause I need to review my periodical table.
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Postby TheRedQueen » June 10th, 2008, 3:24 pm

call2arms wrote:Err, Demo, it doesn't have to do with what food you feed, I know you believe that feeding raw is best, but it doesn't mean that people who feed kibble are less concerned about their pet's health (unless they're feeding Ol'Roy or something), plus some people who are feeding raw at work have been coming for blood tests and at least two showed imbalance in Calcium and Phorphorus or Potassium (can't remember which), so not every raw feeding owner actually feeds properly, with the right balance. That's a HUGE concern with raw, IMO. Uninformed people with raw can totally screw up their dog's health/growth if not doing it properly, as can crappy kibble do.

As long as people see a vet, usually they deworm... Most dogs on HW preventative are also dewormed, around here 6 months a year and in the south, all year round... No matter what they eat, so it really has nothing to do with diet. We automatically give fenbendazole to new puppies - most of the ones coming from byb's and pet stores are riddled with them.

Gee, good horse owners deworm 3 times a year at least, and horses usually aren't too keen on raw meat, lol.

Edited cause I need to review my periodical table.


One of my problems feeding raw was that I ended up with one anemic dog...and I was working really hard to get my raw diet correct. :|
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Postby call2arms » June 10th, 2008, 3:57 pm

Yeah, but some people also think that just giving their dog some muscle and organ meat, but no bones and nevermind in the correct balance. In your case, I'm sure you researched, it's just that something was off I guess. This proves that depending on the animal, it may be hard to find just the right balance, but hey, it happens to US with OUR diets too... It's not easy since everyone/everydog have slight differences in their needs, level of activity...

The people who screw up... I work in an area where people are very upscale (not that it means anything) and a lot just go with trends without actually thinking. Unfortunately, raw is a trend right now (not in the sense of it being a bad thing, just some people hop on the bandwagon without thinking for a second or doing any research). Fluffy pays for it.

But Fido also pays for eating "Cesar" dog food cause the little Westie in the ad is cute, too. Ah well.

Kudos to people who have success with raw balancing, the ratios seem a bit complex maintain.

Demo, I know no one in their right mind would feed rotten carcasses to their animals.
My good'ol point is just that sometimes, once in a while, our beef-pork-chicken can contain worms, and so does that elk-hare-hog your neighbor hunted last week. I didn't invent that, nature did.
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Postby DemoDick » June 10th, 2008, 5:40 pm

Err, Demo, it doesn't have to do with what food you feed, I know you believe that feeding raw is best, but it doesn't mean that people who feed kibble are less concerned about their pet's health (unless they're feeding Ol'Roy or something)...


No. Again, the AVERAGE raw feeder is more interested in their pet's health than the AVERAGE kibble feeder. The average kibble feeder DOES feed Ol' Roy, or a supermarket equivalent. We run in "dog circles" so we often assume that kibble=high end kibble because that's what our fellow "dog people" feed. Most pet owners are content to pick up whatever food is convenient. Most pet owners don't come on these forums, don't get involved in flyball, agility, bitework, or any other kind of formal training. In general, I believe that a person who takes the time to even explore raw as an option is the type of person who takes a keener interest in their dog's health than the "average" pet owner who doesn't notice the minor telltale signs of illness until the dog is well along with an affliction.

My good'ol point is just that sometimes, once in a while, our beef-pork-chicken can contain worms, and so does that elk-hare-hog your neighbor hunted last week. I didn't invent that, nature did.


That's a given. It's also a given that if you take your dog anywhere where other dogs have been/are it can get any number of parasites or other afflictions from other dogs. Worms from raw feeding should be a very minor concern in the big picture.

People who feed raw incorrectly are making a mistake that can damage their dog's health. We all know this. Raw is not a "trend" nor should it be approached as such. It is not a question of what is fashionable this season, it is a question of what is the best option for the majority of dogs based on biology and evolution, BLANCED OUT with what the owner can/will feasibly do. This may mean that the dog will be better served with commercial food.

You have continuously brought up the possibility that raw fed dogs may get worms from their food. No one has disputed this. What I and others have questioned is the likelihood that this will happen versus the likelihood that the dog would get worms from another dog. Based on our collective years of experience, and I'm guessing that it is in the hundreds (1 dog for one year=1 year of feeding), we just haven't seen more worms in our dogs. I know that may fly in the face of what your parasitology teacher may have to say about it, but there it is.

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