Chains for Change

CT, DE, DC, IN, ME, MD, MA, MI, NH, NJ, NY, OH, PA, RI, VT

Postby amyd » April 15th, 2008, 1:05 pm

Chains for Change is a new program from your friends at Hello Bully.

One of the many issues facing Pitbulls today is the common misconception
that Pitbulls can only be trained using heavy handed, correction based
methods. In reality, Pitbulls respond very well to positive reinforcement
training. In addition, methods that rely on physical punishment are cruel,
outdated and certainly ineffective for dogs who have been bred for years to
withstand high amounts of physical discomfort.

It is an important aspect of our mission to bring humane, effective methods
of training to Pit parents everywhere. One of the most basic things we can
do is offer alternatives to choke and prong collars. Our Chains for Change
program aims to do just that! Our goal is to offer free martingale collars
(complete with instructions on how to teach your dog to walk on a loose
leash) to anyone willing to trade in their choke or prong collars. We will also
be selling front-clip harnesses on our website for those extra strong pullers!

One of the strongest and most durable fabrics is denim. We will be using
denim to make our Chains for Change martingales. This is where YOUR
HELP is needed. Please donate your used or new denim jeans to Hello
Bully to get the movement rolling.

Simply send your donations to:
Hello Bully's Chains for Change
4885-A McKnight Road #197
Pittsburgh, PA 15237

Our friends in the Pittsburgh area can drop off their donations at the
following locations. If you own a business in the area and are willing to host
a drop box, please email daisy@hellobully.com

Western Pennsylvania Humane Society - NorthSide (Drop box in Lobby.)
1101 Western Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15233
http://www.wpahumane.org

The Exchange - North Hills (Drop off at register.)
4864 McKnight Rd
Pittsburgh, PA 15237

The Exchange - Monroeville (Drop off box in store.)
4053 William Penn Hwy
Monroeville, PA 15146

K9 Kingdom - Wexford
155 Lake Drive
Wexford, PA 15090
http://www.myk9kingdom.com
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 15th, 2008, 1:09 pm

OMG! This is AWESOME!

:cheer:

I'll be going through my closet soon! I know I have old jeans upstairs that I just found recently...
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby amazincc » April 15th, 2008, 1:33 pm

Great idea!!! :)
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Postby amyd » April 15th, 2008, 1:40 pm

We are very excited about it and have gotten a great response so far:D
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Postby mnp13 » April 15th, 2008, 1:44 pm

That's a great idea except for this part:
methods that rely on physical punishment are cruel, outdated and certainly ineffective


and this:
It is an important aspect of our mission to bring humane, effective methods of training to Pit parents everywhere.


Any group that states or even infers that I am cruel or inhumane to my dogs will not be getting any support from me.

We will also be selling front-clip harnesses on our website for those extra strong pullers!

Sorry, I prefer to train my dogs, not control them.
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Postby amyd » April 15th, 2008, 1:50 pm

Sorry, I prefer to train my dogs, not control them.

When we sell the harnesses, they are sold as a training tool, not a solution. I personally, use a flat buckle collar. And our organization stands behind using positive reinforcement training, I am sorry that you will not want to support us.
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Postby amazincc » April 15th, 2008, 1:55 pm

Amy... how do you advise people who's dogs do NOT respond to an always-positive training method?
You guys MUST come across that more often than not. :|
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Postby mnp13 » April 15th, 2008, 2:02 pm

amyd wrote:When we sell the harnesses, they are sold as a training tool, not a solution. I personally, use a flat buckle collar. And our organization stands behind using positive reinforcement training, I am sorry that you will not want to support us.


There is nothing wrong with positive reforcement training, saying that anyone who uses other methods is an animal abuser is the problem.

Oh, and the only difference between a prong correction and a martingale correction is your perception of it. They both are a limited slip correction. The martingale chokes, the prong collar pinches.
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Postby DemoDick » April 15th, 2008, 2:15 pm

In addition, methods that rely on physical punishment are cruel,
outdated and certainly ineffective for dogs who have been bred for years to
withstand high amounts of physical discomfort...


Everyone considering donating to this group please take note: if you use physical corrections on your Pit Bull (and I would guess any other breed of dog) then they consider you cruel and your methods outdated.

Your use of the word "humane" as an alternative to training methods that incorporate physical corrections directly implies that those methods are inhumane.

In Denmark, animal rights groups successfully outlawed the use of prong collars. How long before we end up in a similar situation borne out of a misguided desire to do "right" for all animals?

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Postby amyd » April 15th, 2008, 2:19 pm

When we show people how to use a martingale, we explain to them the importance of not having a tense leash. We do not want them to use it to correct the dog. We promote martingales because the dog can not slip out of them like a regular collar.
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Postby madremissy » April 15th, 2008, 2:27 pm

amyd wrote:When we show people how to use a martingale, we explain to them the importance of not having a tense leash. We do not want them to use it to correct the dog. We promote martingales because the dog can not slip out of them like a regular collar.


I am confused, because I thought the whole point of training the dog was to walk on a loose leash and not pull. I always walk Kinzyl on her choke chain because I don't want to take the chance of her seeing something and slipping out of her collar. She loves squirrells, lizards, frogs, etc. We are still working on leave it command and it works. She does not pull when we walk so I don't see how I am being cruel to her by using it.
Gotty has a prong, he is the same way walks very good on it. Does not pull a bit. But if he does not have it on and he might see something as in squirrell (well he is really not very interested in anything) but I feel more comfortable with it on him because he can pull me down the drive if he wanted to. But he doesn't.
I am being serious by my question. Am I missing something.
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Postby amyd » April 15th, 2008, 2:33 pm

I need to apologize in advance, if this program is considered fundraising. I only now read the rules. I am sincerly sorry. Mods, if it is considered fundraising please lock or delete if need be.
I
am confused, because I thought the whole point of training the dog was to walk on a loose leash and not pull.

Yes, it is.I am not sure where the confusion is?
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 15th, 2008, 2:34 pm

I'll still be donating jeans to you...I fully believe in what you are doing...

My dogs have *used* front clip harnesses...as a training tool, and they no longer wear them, except for Sawyer who chokes in even a buckle collar. I'd much rather see front-clips used as a management tool, than choke chains pulled taut on a tight leash. I sat and watched part of the traditional training class last night at our facility...two dogs on tight choke chains, pulling and straining...in class and out the door. I'd at least rather see them on a front clip or martingale where they aren't smooshing their airways all the way along. ;) Most of the time my guys go collar-less, and are trained off leash with buckle collars.

I see dogs all of the time that become collar-wise on "training collars"...prongs, chokes and yes, head halters...I see dogs in our therapy program that are wearing prongs or chokes at 10+ years old. If that's not a management tool...?!?!
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby madremissy » April 15th, 2008, 2:42 pm

amyd wrote:I need to apologize in advance, if this program is considered fundraising. I only now read the rules. I am sincerly sorry. Mods, if it is considered fundraising please lock or delete if need be.
I
am confused, because I thought the whole point of training the dog was to walk on a loose leash and not pull.

Yes, it is.I am not sure where the confusion is?


Since Kinzyl and Gotty don't pull then how is it cruel to use it?
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Postby amyd » April 15th, 2008, 2:45 pm

Since Kinzyl and Gotty don't pull then how is it cruel to use it?

Now I am very confused, if they don't pull, why are you using something that will correct? What are you correcting them for? I am also not trying to be smart, just trying to understand.
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Postby amazincc » April 15th, 2008, 2:46 pm

Mick has tried it ALL... head halters, harnesses, flat buckle, prong, martingale... right now he wears a leather choker, and it gives me good control when he has the occasional "episode"... I also don't consider myself to be cruel or inhumane, far from it, actually. :)
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Postby amazincc » April 15th, 2008, 2:49 pm

amyd wrote:
Since Kinzyl and Gotty don't pull then how is it cruel to use it?

Now I am very confused, if they don't pull, why are you using something that will correct? What are you correcting them for? I am also not trying to be smart, just trying to understand.


It will only CORRECT them IF they pull... isn't that the point? I thought a prong was more of a self-correcting training tool once the dog understands the given command... like "heel", or whatever one chooses to use?? :?
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Postby madremissy » April 15th, 2008, 2:57 pm

I am always in training with Kinzyl, she does not pull when walking but we are still working on the leave it command. I live in a very rural area and wildlife is everywhere. NO I am not a trainer I am learning. I know in no way I am being cruel to my animals so I will keep using it because it works for Kinzyl and that is my main concern. Not trying to be mean. I need to apologize also, I should have not opened my big mouth because now I can not answer your questions lika trainer. I am bowing out of this one. :wave2:

NO I am not a trainer I am learning.Clarifying this statement. I am not learning to be a trainer just to train my own dogs.
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Postby mnp13 » April 15th, 2008, 3:23 pm

amyd wrote:I need to apologize in advance, if this program is considered fundraising. I only now read the rules. I am sincerly sorry. Mods, if it is considered fundraising please lock or delete if need be.


You're within the board rules, but thank you for checking on that. :)
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 15th, 2008, 4:51 pm

Just as a reminder, somewhere we have a lengthy thread on positive v. compulsion-based training. I think conversations like this are great and provide an excellent learning opportunity. However, I would like to see this in the training section so that this thread can remain focused on Amy's work with Hello Bully. :)
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
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