The TRUTH about Lila

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Postby SpiritFngrz » March 19th, 2006, 12:04 am

This is an attempt to put this story to rest.

As of late, it has become clear that the rescue I fostered these dogs through feels the need to dredge up the past, for unknown reasons. Any stories fabricated by the rescue are just that: fabrications, and are an attempt to side-step the fact that the rescue had partial responsibility for putting my family in danger.

There is only ONE side of this story-the account of those present at the time of the incident. It should be noted that the only people who met this dog were myself, my husband, and another member of this board, and NOT the rescue itself. Fabrications invented by those who were not present at the time of the incident and thus did not even meet the dog, have no merit.

I do not know what is to be accomplished from posting this story except for perhaps realizing "lessons learned"- on the part of us, being inexperienced in caring for a dog of unknown temperament, and mostly on the part of the rescue - who should have known to retrieve more information about the dog's temperament and to place the dog in an appropriately experienced foster home.

In addition, this is a harsh throwback to the reality of life experienced by pitbulls on the streets, and in fighting rings. Lila was taught early on in her life that people are EVIL and should not be trusted- she was not shown true kindness until she came to our house. RIP sweet Lila, and please know we did our very best to take excellent care of your puppies while they were with US.

I will answer questions that anyone may have.
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Postby Hoyden » March 19th, 2006, 12:14 am

When I first heard about this incident - I heard the rescuer's side of the story and was enraged - I wanted to find out the truth about the incident and set about to discover what I could. In my mind it was one of two things; cruelty or self-defense.

In the course of my investigation, I discovered that the rescuer's side of the story was more than a little biased and this incident was indeed an act of self-defense.

Have a read and judge for yourselves.

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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 2:33 am

I'm so sorry that this happened to you, and that you are being judged by a few Monday morning quarterbacks who were not there and have no first hand knowledge of the events.

I hope you are able to find peace over this issue. It sounds to me like you did everything that you knew to do - and that's all anyone can expect you to do.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 19th, 2006, 3:41 am

Wow. So this rescue had you pull a dog that was deemed aggressive by the shelter & foster it, even though you had no real breed experience? Is that what I am reading here? Did this guy know this green dot was on her cage? Surely the rescue TOLD him this. :? I can't imagine what sort of relationship the shelter had with the rescue if they did not inform him before hand. I hate to tell this rescue guy but if singing & speaking softely to an agressive dog is the way to calm it down, don't you think there would be a lot less dog bites?? All I can say is if this had been my house, I would have done the same thing, if NOT, the dog would have been at the vet the very next day & I would NEVER again foster a dog for a rescue that would put my family or any one else's family in danger. This happened October , it is now march, why all the fuss now? Sing to an aggressive dog.......wow, just wow. And this guy is a pit bull rescue??? Holy shit. So he is ok with fostering human agressive pit bulls for adoption by unsuspecting owners? I'm sorry for all the questions but I am just flabbergasted. And people wonder why BSL is knocking on everyone's door.
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Postby satanscheerleader » March 19th, 2006, 5:33 am

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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 9:38 am

WTF???????????based on the statement above, this rescue person never went to temperment test the dog himself? he allowed the shelter to give him a verbal assessment? rescuers know to NEVER ever pull a dog with a aggressive card on the cage...
no human aggressive pit bull is to be pulled by rescues.. everyone in reputable rescues knows that.. its the rescue owners responsibility to properly place ANY foster dog in the correct foster home, and most importantly to ALWAYS temperment test the dogs themselves before pulling the dog, and to NEVER ever pull a dog that is deemed aggressive, especially a pit bull. what kind of pit bull rescue is this?? definitely not a reputable one based on the facts above..
I am sorry you had to go thru this, just remember that what your husband did was to protect his family, and do not feel bad in any way. its not your fault the rescue did not temperment test this dog or listen to the shelter people when they told them the dog was deemed aggressive..

you did again, what you had to to protect your family . no one should have to go thru this, but you did what was necessary at the time. Thank you for trying to help her. Sometimes, the amount of abuse a dog suffers is too much to bring them back..

I hope its not the rescue that is dredging this all up, as that would make no sense for them to do this. if they are, shame on them. if they are still pulling and adopting out human aggressive pit bulls they should not be doing rescue period.
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Postby Purple » March 19th, 2006, 10:59 am

I am sorry you and your family had to go through this situation, a situation which could have obviously been avoided had the rescue actually tested the dog. Shame on the rescue.
You and your family are in my thoughts, again, I am so sorry you and your family had to go thru this.
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Postby Eric - SPBR » March 19th, 2006, 11:16 am

hi all -- eric here --

-- here is my response to the above posts, since all stories have both sides, and noel never confirmed her "findings" with me --

-- here is what we were told if her temperament --

http://spbr.org/pbsmiles/upload/showpos ... ostcount=8

and here is where doreen confirmed it --

http://spbr.org/pbsmiles/upload/showpos ... stcount=23

and again -

http://spbr.org/pbsmiles/upload/showpos ... ostcount=5

I don't recall ever telling her to "sing the momma to sleep" --

that is just an odd thing to say -- ever -- !!

Also, neither Brian nor Doreen nor the shelter ever told me of the "green dot" on Lila's crate -- that would have been helpfuly for me to know. I trusted the shelter as professionals to assess the mother, which they did, and which Doreen confirmed in her subsequent posts. Shelters have professional dog trainers and temperament testers on their staff -- and I relied on the shelter for that support, which I don't think is unreasonable.

The bottom line, to me, is that you don't go shooting dogs that are acting to protect their babies. Especially dogs that don't bite.

Would I have taken Lila and her babies in a heartbeat if Doreen called and asked for help? Certainly. Would I have been upset if Doreen called AC and said, "COME GET THIS DOG"?? Absolutely not.

But we were never given that option. And now Doreen, confirming the facts that I have stated before on this forum, is the victim --

-- when Lila was really the victim.

eric
Last edited by Eric - SPBR on March 19th, 2006, 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Eric - SPBR » March 19th, 2006, 11:17 am

-- the funny thing is, at the end of it, Lila was still shot for protecting her babies. And now that's being justified.

After all the deflection, games and lies, Lila was shot, and she didn't even bite anyone.

That is sad. I think people have very different views of animals and situations, and many peoples' true colors certainly came out here.

I am going to keep my direction, and I am happy to see that some others are.

For the ones that go in the the other direction, I hope you are never walking your dog near gun-toting Brian when he's out with Satin --

-- should there be an altercation, you are guaranteed that your dog will get shot, and that people will justify it --

-- and, since accidents happen, you may get shot, too.

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Postby Purple » March 19th, 2006, 11:19 am

None of the links you posted lead to anything....they all say oops, and there is a picture of Thor in a basket....
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Postby Eric - SPBR » March 19th, 2006, 11:20 am

to clarify, i didn't find lila a "bag of bones" when she came in to rescue --

-- here she is, at the shelter, with her babies --

Image

and here --

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and here she is at doreen and brian's house --

Image

here is her link, from my site

http://www.spbr.org/featuredpets/jersey ... eypups.htm

ALSO, i would like to give a BIG THUMBS UP to the moderator on this forum for allowing me to post -- that shows a lot of maturity, and objectiveness. THANK YOU!
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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 11:22 am

no pit bull should ever growl at a human, whether with babies around or not.. that is not proper pit bull temperment. if you are involved in rescue you should know that. any pit bull that growls, snaps or lunges at a human wanting to attack/bite should not be adopted out ever. it was YOUR responsibility as a rescue owner to personally drive to that shelter and evaluate that dog. period... you never never never allow shelter workers to evaluate a dog and then do a transport for the dog.. its common sense to always evaluate the dogs yourself, not to depend on other parties involved.. and, when that dog got to the foster home , YOU should have gone there and assessed her temperment , and kept going there to assess her temperment the entire time she was there due to the fact that she was pregnant/had puppies whatever.. a responsible rescue takes full responsibility for any pit bull that is deemed human aggressive and does not blame it on the foster home. some dogs that are so abused can not turn around. and you also should have contacted the shelter where she came from and reamed them out for not telling you about the green dot on the cage.. but then again, you should have been there the day of pickup of her to assess her temperment and speak to everyone at that shelter.
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Postby Eric - SPBR » March 19th, 2006, 11:23 am

sorry for that, vicki -- the vbulletin parsed them --

-- they're fixed now --

e

Purple wrote:None of the links you posted lead to anything....they all say oops, and there is a picture of Thor in a basket....
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Postby msvette2u » March 19th, 2006, 11:24 am

Those are some of the prettiest puppies I've ever seen!
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Postby Purple » March 19th, 2006, 11:25 am

clarity wrote:sorry for that, vicki -- the vbulletin parsed them --

-- they're fixed now --

e

Purple wrote:None of the links you posted lead to anything....they all say oops, and there is a picture of Thor in a basket....


Thanks, Eric, I will go look now.
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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 11:26 am

No doubt, I love her, but puppies, notoriously find homes much easier than the adults. One reason why we are keeping the momma, plus she's an absolute doll. Also, we already have momma Satin and we def. couldn't have three dogs....


eric, you allow same sex adoptions?? you know that same sex adoptions should not be, due to the dog on dog aggression in this breed,.
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Postby msvette2u » March 19th, 2006, 11:27 am

Maryellen wrote:no pit bull should ever growl at a human, whether with babies around or not.. that is not proper pit bull temperment. if you are involved in rescue you should know that. any pit bull that growls, snaps or lunges at a human wanting to attack/bite should not be adopted out ever. it was YOUR responsibility as a rescue owner to personally drive to that shelter and evaluate that dog. period... you never never never allow shelter workers to evaluate a dog and then do a transport for the dog.. its common sense to always evaluate the dogs yourself, not to depend on other parties involved.. and, when that dog got to the foster home , YOU should have gone there and assessed her temperment , and kept going there to assess her temperment the entire time she was there due to the fact that she was pregnant/had puppies whatever.. a responsible rescue takes full responsibility for any pit bull that is deemed human aggressive and does not blame it on the foster home. some dogs that are so abused can not turn around. and you also should have contacted the shelter where she came from and reamed them out for not telling you about the green dot on the cage.. but then again, you should have been there the day of pickup of her to assess her temperment and speak to everyone at that shelter.


As a shelter worker myself, I've dealt with a number of pregnant bitches and their offspring when they were born. A few times I've been brought a pregnant mom and her infant puppies.
In that time, no mom has ever growled or shown aggression to me, even in defense of her puppies.
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Postby Eric - SPBR » March 19th, 2006, 11:28 am

maryellen, i first heard about the "green dot" in the past week -- neither brian nor doreen ever told me of it --

-- and also, the shelter has liability for the mother, and they have professional trainers and assessors to evaluate dogs -- folks that are more qualified than you and i are --

-- and the first time i heard of such strong aggression was after lila was shot --

-- i am not sure how familiar you are with litters, but dea, my best mother ever, after she birthed, growled at me ONCE the day i walked in to see her a proud momma -- she was being a MOMMA and was an exceptional dog --

-- she did not deserve death for that -- whatsoever -- since then, dea lives with a golden retriever and a dentist, in mass -- certainly not a vicious dog -- here she is -- below -- and here's her story --

http://www.spbr.org/foreverhomes/2004/fall/dea/dea.htm


Maryellen wrote:no pit bull should ever growl at a human, whether with babies around or not.. that is not proper pit bull temperment. if you are involved in rescue you should know that. any pit bull that growls, snaps or lunges at a human wanting to attack/bite should not be adopted out ever. it was YOUR responsibility as a rescue owner to personally drive to that shelter and evaluate that dog. period... you never never never allow shelter workers to evaluate a dog and then do a transport for the dog.. its common sense to always evaluate the dogs yourself, not to depend on other parties involved.. and, when that dog got to the foster home , YOU should have gone there and assessed her temperment , and kept going there to assess her temperment the entire time she was there due to the fact that she was pregnant/had puppies whatever.. a responsible rescue takes full responsibility for any pit bull that is deemed human aggressive and does not blame it on the foster home. some dogs that are so abused can not turn around. and you also should have contacted the shelter where she came from and reamed them out for not telling you about the green dot on the cage.. but then again, you should have been there the day of pickup of her to assess her temperment and speak to everyone at that shelter.
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Postby Purple » March 19th, 2006, 11:28 am

Could you include the date stamp on her posts Eric, I just want a feel of the time frame.
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Postby Eric - SPBR » March 19th, 2006, 11:30 am

isn't it in the upper left of the posts, vicki?

if you'd like, i can post the thread links

basically, lila came in on a saturday, and was shot late that following wednesday night.


Purple wrote:Could you include the date stamp on her posts Eric, I just want a feel of the time frame.
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