Stupid people

by **cklee** » October 31st, 2007, 12:03 am

Okay, sorry I have a rant. I am currently looking for new housing and this is what I was told on how this particular landlord decided if a dog was aggressive or not. What he does is he will act like he's going to hit the dog, if the dog flinches or ducks, then the dog passes. What an idiot! These are probably the same type of idiots that write the BSL laws. Not that it really matters anyway b/c we were rejected from the get go b/c of Malo being one of the "vicious" breeds.

by **gayrghts** » October 31st, 2007, 12:22 am

On October 30 2007, 11:03 PM, cklee wrote:Okay, sorry I have a rant. I am currently looking for new housing and this is what I was told on how this particular landlord decided if a dog was aggressive or not. What he does is he will act like he's going to hit the dog, if the dog flinches or ducks, then the dog passes. What an idiot! These are probably the same type of idiots that write the BSL laws. Not that it really matters anyway b/c we were rejected from the get go b/c of Malo being one of the "vicious" breeds.

my dogs won't flinch or duck, because they've never been hit....

they also won't act aggressive....

good luck finding somewhere.... often locales have lists of pet friendly rentals.

by **iluvk9** » October 31st, 2007, 6:35 am

I remember a story of a friend who went to maybe Germany (?) I have to ask the newbie from Germany....

Well, the way they check for dog aggression, to allow your dog into the country, is to do similar things. I was told they have a police dog, on leash, sort of attack your dog and if your dog defends itself, he fails. Also, if they actually hit your dog and he retaliates, he fails. Failure means being PTS.

Again, I got this story a few years back, but I am rather sure it is accurate.

by **Klopfer** » October 31st, 2007, 7:13 am

yep, we've got a test here in Germany to show the social behavior of so called "Category-Dogs", but no one will hit or hurt the dog!!! That's forbidden and against law! This test is controlled (monitored?) by an Official Veterinarian, an K-9 unit police officer and somebody from the department of health and safety.

They've got to show how they a reacting when an other dog passes by (the dogs are allowed to bark and to growl, but they have to calm down quickly), someone shouts at them/the owner, somebody talks to the owner, how they react to children, older people, bicycles, cars, other animals, places full of people (market, tube, ...) and how they react when they are left alone (for example when they've got to wait outside a shop).
Additionally, they've got to show obedience.

If these dogs are really, really, really, REALLY aggressive they will be put to sleep. No one needs aggressive or uncontrollable dogs. But the dogs are allowed to show normal defending behavior!

If the dogs fails, you loose your permission to own the dog and the dog has to be returned to the shelter but could be adopted again!

by **KADO** » October 31st, 2007, 7:40 am

The funny thing about that is my Pit bull would pass with flying colors but my Chihuahua would fail terribly.

by **TheRedQueen** » October 31st, 2007, 10:31 am

On October 30 2007, 11:22 PM, gayrghts wrote:
On October 30 2007, 11:03 PM, cklee wrote:Okay, sorry I have a rant. I am currently looking for new housing and this is what I was told on how this particular landlord decided if a dog was aggressive or not. What he does is he will act like he's going to hit the dog, if the dog flinches or ducks, then the dog passes. What an idiot! These are probably the same type of idiots that write the BSL laws. Not that it really matters anyway b/c we were rejected from the get go b/c of Malo being one of the "vicious" breeds.

my dogs won't flinch or duck, because they've never been hit....

they also won't act aggressive....

Ah...the beauty of having weird little herding dogs...I have one that is extremely hand-shy...and will duck away from a hand over his head for petting. Never has he been hit...I've had him since a pup. He's just got "duck!" hardwired into his system. Once he realizes it's a hand to pet, he'll allow it. He's also the best on sheep/cows that I have...guess the instinct to duck out of the way also helps with herding large animals!

by **mnp13** » October 31st, 2007, 11:09 am

On October 31 2007, 07:13, Klopfer wrote:yep, we've got a test here in Germany to show the social behavior of so called "Category-Dogs", but no one will hit or hurt the dog!!! That's forbidden and against law! This test is controlled (monitored?) by an Official Veterinarian, an K-9 unit police officer and somebody from the department of health and safety.

They've got to show how they a reacting when an other dog passes by (the dogs are allowed to bark and to growl, but they have to calm down quickly), someone shouts at them/the owner, somebody talks to the owner, how they react to children, older people, bicycles, cars, other animals, places full of people (market, tube, ...) and how they react when they are left alone (for example when they've got to wait outside a shop).
Additionally, they've got to show obedience.

If these dogs are really, really, really, REALLY aggressive they will be put to sleep. No one needs aggressive or uncontrollable dogs. But the dogs are allowed to show normal defending behavior!

If the dogs fails, you loose your permission to own the dog and the dog has to be returned to the shelter but could be adopted again!

Honestly, that doesn't sound all that bad. NO, I am not supporting it, but I'd like to think that 99% of dogs would pass anyway. Your dog shouldn't fly off the handle at normal every day life. However, people obviously should have the opportunity to properly manage a dog that doesn't pass.

As for "how they react when they are left alone (for example when they've got to wait outside a shop)." there is no way on earth I'd ever leave my dog tied up outside a store, so that would be a non issue!

Ah...the beauty of having weird little herding dogs...I have one that is extremely hand-shy...and will duck away from a hand over his head for petting. Never has he been hit...I've had him since a pup. He's just got "duck!" hardwired into his system. Once he realizes it's a hand to pet, he'll allow it. He's also the best on sheep/cows that I have...guess the instinct to duck out of the way also helps with herding large animals

That's what gets me, you have had the dog for its entire life so you know it never was "abused" but everyone and their brother who has a rescue dog thinks that any dog that is shy "was beaten by their last owner." I was at a park and met someone with a boxer who was dog aggressive, she insisted that he was that way because he was a "bait dog" before she got him. He didn't have a mark on him.

by **Jenn** » October 31st, 2007, 2:31 pm

If the dogs fails, you loose your permission to own the dog and the dog has to be returned to the shelter but could be adopted again

WOW! So what if the dog keeps failing?? It just keeps going back?

by **iluvk9** » October 31st, 2007, 5:32 pm

Thank you for clarifying, Klopfer. :greenWave:

by **iluvk9** » October 31st, 2007, 9:32 pm

On October 31 2007, Jenn wrote:
If the dogs fails, you loose your permission to own the dog and the dog has to be returned to the shelter but could be adopted again

WOW! So what if the dog keeps failing?? It just keeps going back?

Not according to my friend who originally told me about the testing and the Pres. of the Connecticut Humane Society.

http://pages.cthome.net/india2/page70.html

Part of the article:

Pit Bulls Do Not Deserve Their Vicious Reputation

By Richard Johnson, President
Connecticut Humane Society

Do you think someone should die because they have been given a bad reputation falsely? Of course not. Yet that is exactly what is happening to three breeds of dogs in Germany.

This began last summer when, following a fatal attack on a 6-year-old boy. Germany enacted a law, which banned Pit Bull Terriers, American Staffordshire Terriers and Staffordshire Terriers. In some parts of Germany the list also includes the Bull Terrier and the Miniature Bull Terrier. Current owners of these dogs are allowed to keep their pets only if the dogs pass a temperament test. This test takes three hours during which the animal is tested and the process is videotaped. The cost of the exam is $500 per dog. If the animal does not pass the test, it is euthanized.

If a pet owner chooses not to have their dog tested, it may be exported from the country. Otherwise, euthanasia is the only option. Those caught breeding or buying these dogs face a fine of $50,000 and a six-month jail term. Similar legislation is being considered across Europe.

by **cheekymunkee** » October 31st, 2007, 9:40 pm

On October 31 2007, 9:31 AM, TheRedQueen wrote:
On October 30 2007, 11:22 PM, gayrghts wrote:
On October 30 2007, 11:03 PM, cklee wrote:Okay, sorry I have a rant. I am currently looking for new housing and this is what I was told on how this particular landlord decided if a dog was aggressive or not. What he does is he will act like he's going to hit the dog, if the dog flinches or ducks, then the dog passes. What an idiot! These are probably the same type of idiots that write the BSL laws. Not that it really matters anyway b/c we were rejected from the get go b/c of Malo being one of the "vicious" breeds.

my dogs won't flinch or duck, because they've never been hit....

they also won't act aggressive....

Ah...the beauty of having weird little herding dogs...I have one that is extremely hand-shy...and will duck away from a hand over his head for petting. Never has he been hit...I've had him since a pup. He's just got "duck!" hardwired into his system. Once he realizes it's a hand to pet, he'll allow it. He's also the best on sheep/cows that I have...guess the instinct to duck out of the way also helps with herding large animals!

All of my dogs would flinch too. Not because they have ever been hit, because they also have the "duck" instinct. They know that something coming towards their head is likely to connect.

by **Michele** » November 1st, 2007, 12:07 pm

my chihuahua would fail...

by **brooksybrooks1** » November 1st, 2007, 12:30 pm

you don't want to live there anyway, having a bad landlord sucks and will probably show up in other areas as well, but yeah, that's silly.

by **Klopfer** » November 2nd, 2007, 3:16 pm

On October 31 2007, 8:32 PM, iluvk9 wrote:
Not according to my friend who originally told me about the testing and the Pres. of the Connecticut Humane Society.

http://pages.cthome.net/india2/page70.html

Part of the article:

Pit Bulls Do Not Deserve Their Vicious Reputation

By Richard Johnson, President
Connecticut Humane Society

Do you think someone should die because they have been given a bad reputation falsely? Of course not. Yet that is exactly what is happening to three breeds of dogs in Germany.

This began last summer when, following a fatal attack on a 6-year-old boy. Germany enacted a law, which banned Pit Bull Terriers, American Stafford shire Terriers and Stafford shire Terriers. In some parts of Germany the list also includes the Bull Terrier and the Miniature Bull Terrier. Current owners of these dogs are allowed to keep their pets only if the dogs pass a temperament test. This test takes three hours during which the animal is tested and the process is videotaped. The cost of the exam is $500 per dog. If the animal does not pass the test, it is euthanized.

If a pet owner chooses not to have their dog tested, it may be exported from the country. Otherwise, euthanasia is the only option. Those caught breeding or buying these dogs face a fine of $50,000 and a six-month jail term. Similar legislation is being considered across Europe.

The Miniature Bull Terrier is not listed in Germany or has ever been listed, neither as a "Cat.1"-dog nor as a "Cat.2"-Dog!

This text above is half true:
It's forbidden to euthanize animals in Germany without any medical reason!! But... In 2000, when this attack hap pend (in Hamburg, everyone knew that Zeus and Gipsy - the two dogs - were trained as fighting dogs), everyone who had a Pit Bull or an Am staff got nuts and brought their dog to a "dog jail" which was located near Hamburg Harbor and no one was allowed to take pictures or even visit this dogs. These dogs haven't seen daylight until the day they were euthanized.
These dogs were normal family dogs, not aggressive or something else but the influence of the media was quite to hard.
It was said, that Pit Bulls could bite with a strength of over 60 tonnes, they have 2 rows of teeth, they could not open their mouth when they bite and so on. Everyone believed in that...

Two Month after this attack, there where new laws for these listed dogs. Since then, no dog - unless they are relay aggressive - was etherized.
Every federal state has different laws for this listed dogs, for example in Lower Saxony: all dogs are the same, there is no list, or Hamburg or Bavaria: theses federal states have the most rigorous laws for dogs in whole Germany....

by **mnp13** » November 3rd, 2007, 10:34 am

Klopfer - thanks so much for the information! There is so much out there on BSL that it's hard to keep track of what is true and what is hysteria (on our part!)

by **Sonnenschein** » December 2nd, 2007, 10:15 pm

So far, three individual german states (Laender) have abolished BSL in the last 2 years. What's important to remember thou for military personnel on orders to Germany.......if your breed of dog is prohibited in the state of your duty station, you can always apply for an exemption due to hardship (basically saying that the military send you to germany, you did not simply choose to move there with your dog) and if your dog passes the so-called "Wesenstest" (CGC type test) these exemptions are usually granted. Do not let the military simply tell you that Pitbull/Amstaff/Bullterrier etc are banned in Germany period!

by **Sonnenschein** » December 2nd, 2007, 10:17 pm

On October 31 2007, 5:35 AM, iluvk9 wrote:I remember a story of a friend who went to maybe Germany (?) I have to ask the newbie from Germany....

Well, the way they check for dog aggression, to allow your dog into the country, is to do similar things. I was told they have a police dog, on leash, sort of attack your dog and if your dog defends itself, he fails. Also, if they actually hit your dog and he retaliates, he fails. Failure means being PTS.

Again, I got this story a few years back, but I am rather sure it is accurate.

So untrue......like Klopfer said, euthanizing a healthy animal is against the law in Germany...regardless of it's breed and regardless of the owners wishes. No veterinarian is allowed to euthanize a healthy animal.

by **Hoyden** » December 3rd, 2007, 2:13 am

On December 02 2007, 9:17 PM, Sonnenschein wrote:
On October 31 2007, 5:35 AM, iluvk9 wrote:I remember a story of a friend who went to maybe Germany (?) I have to ask the newbie from Germany....

Well, the way they check for dog aggression, to allow your dog into the country, is to do similar things. I was told they have a police dog, on leash, sort of attack your dog and if your dog defends itself, he fails. Also, if they actually hit your dog and he retaliates, he fails. Failure means being PTS.

Again, I got this story a few years back, but I am rather sure it is accurate.
So untrue......like Klopfer said, euthanizing a healthy animal is against the law in Germany...regardless of it's breed and regardless of the owners wishes. No veterinarian is allowed to euthanize a healthy animal.

Wow! How is over populations issues there??

I used to work with a German vet in Italy named Dorthea Fritz

Here is her German site: http://www.lega-pro-animale.de/index.htm
And her English site: http://www.geocities.com/fondazionemondoanimale/

And articles about her from the Best Friends Network & the Humane Society for her work with sterilizing stray animals
http://network.bestfriends.org/Blogs/Po ... 4357c7b0ff
http://www.hsus.org/about_us/humane_soc ... imale.html

Dorthea is one of my Heros. Anyone who will get into a boat to go to an island in the Mediterranean to spay cats in January is a Saint.

by **amazincc** » December 3rd, 2007, 4:34 am

As for "how they react when they are left alone (for example when they've got to wait outside a shop)." there is no way on earth I'd ever leave my dog tied up outside a store, so that would be a non issue!

This is (was) actually quite common when I grew up... most of the shops had little small iron rings attached outside for the purpose of tying up your dog while you shopped... most butcher shops gave out bones and stuff for free, if you asked for it for your dog. Our butcher would always give my dog a chunk of baloney when I brought him w/me. You were also allowed to bring your dog into restaurants and on buses and trains... as long as you paid the fare and your dog behaved appropriately. We did have strict leash laws and I can't remember ever seeing a stray when I grew up.
I haven't been back in some 23 years or so, and I would imagine that a lot has changed in the meantime... :wink:

by **demolitionic** » December 3rd, 2007, 1:33 pm

On December 03 2007, 2:34 AM, amazincc wrote:
As for "how they react when they are left alone (for example when they've got to wait outside a shop)." there is no way on earth I'd ever leave my dog tied up outside a store, so that would be a non issue!

This is (was) actually quite common when I grew up... most of the shops had little small iron rings attached outside for the purpose of tying up your dog while you shopped... most butcher shops gave out bones and stuff for free, if you asked for it for your dog. Our butcher would always give my dog a chunk of baloney when I brought him w/me. You were also allowed to bring your dog into restaurants and on buses and trains... as long as you paid the fare and your dog behaved appropriately. We did have strict leash laws and I can't remember ever seeing a stray when I grew up.
I haven't been back in some 23 years or so, and I would imagine that a lot has changed in the meantime...

That really does sound lovely!

I'd love to be able to take my dog with me whenever I was out and about.

Stupid people

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