Training the Schutzhund Puppy

Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby babyreba » November 15th, 2007, 4:18 pm

i think we might be talking about different levels of obedience . . . when i think puppy training and corrections, i think pretty simple stuff like telling the puppy NO, stopping the behavior it's engaged in, and showing the pup what i do want it to do. i'll put my hands on a pup, but i won't correct aggressively, usually just to stop the behavior the pup's engaging in, remove the pup from the area, etc.

when i think "simple basic" obedience, i usually think about it as teaching more than correcting because you can generally teach a dog to sit or down or come without having to correct heavily.
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Postby katiek0417 » November 15th, 2007, 4:21 pm

On November 15 2007, 3:18 PM, babyreba wrote:i think we might be talking about different levels of obedience . . . when i think puppy training and corrections, i think pretty simple stuff like telling the puppy NO, stopping the behavior it's engaged in, and showing the pup what i do want it to do. i'll put my hands on a pup, but i won't correct aggressively, usually just to stop the behavior the pup's engaging in, remove the pup from the area, etc.

when i think "simple basic" obedience, i usually think about it as teaching more than correcting because you can generally teach a dog to sit or down or come without having to correct heavily.


Very good points...however, with a dog biting me, I just give it something else to chew on, or put it in a crate...I use the crate ALOT with my puppies...

However, I also use treats and/or clicker to teach my puppies to sit, down, etc...I hold off on heavy stuff (attention heel, etc) until they are older...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby GregMK9 » November 15th, 2007, 7:38 pm

I agree, you can do simple "Basic" obedience with out corrections. More of a teaching phase, using food and taking a dog out of a situation. By all means do all these things.
I am simply saying stay away from any "Real" corrections. And don't over due the motivational obedience.
I also agree that a pup either has the right temperament or it doesn't. But there are things we can do and not do to make a strong working pup an even stronger working dog!
I don't expect everyone to wait a yr. to put formal ob on a dog. I mean let's be realistic most people with working dogs who compete in sport are doing so with there family pet, a dog that in most cases lives in the house and probably sleeps in bed with it's owner and who are competing with their dog for something fun to do with their dog. People who could care less about a title let alone winning or competing at a high level.
You can't expect these people to wait a yr for ob. Six mos if their lucky!
but all too often these are the dogs I see with the nerve issue's, the handler dependency issue's. Doesn't mean at one time they weren't good strong pups. What it means is they didn't get proper foundation for a "Working" puppy for what ever reason. Maybe the owner got the pup, it had a ton of drive, the pup got correction after correction for it's drive. Now the owner wants to do protection! And now the owner has a dog that has a ton of drive but afraid to show it b/c of previous corrections. NOW I as a trainer have a ton of issue's to work through but am willing b/c it's still a good dog.
Again, I am not saying don't do obedience. I'm simply saying be careful how you do it!
Greg

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Postby CopperCoin » November 20th, 2007, 4:31 pm

Very good topic. I don't know much about bitesports but this advice about delaying heavy obedience and no corrections etc sounds plausible.

However, what about if the aim is not to compete in bitesports but in some other venue like search and rescue, tracking or maybe simply competitive obedience? Would it be beneficial to have the same approach with a puppy as with a bitesport prospect? Could intensive training (not neccessarily using corrections) from an early age cause burnout in the dog as an adult? Sorry if the questions sound dumb, I don't have any experience with raising a puppy for work/sport.
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Postby katiek0417 » November 20th, 2007, 7:12 pm

On November 20 2007, 3:31 PM, CopperCoin wrote:Very good topic. I don't know much about bitesports but this advice about delaying heavy obedience and no corrections etc sounds plausible.

However, what about if the aim is not to compete in bitesports but in some other venue like search and rescue, tracking or maybe simply competitive obedience? Would it be beneficial to have the same approach with a puppy as with a bitesport prospect? Could intensive training (not neccessarily using corrections) from an early age cause burnout in the dog as an adult? Sorry if the questions sound dumb, I don't have any experience with raising a puppy for work/sport.


For pet dogs, I start obedience around 5 months old (with corrections). For any type of working dog, I prefer waiting until they are older. This allows them to gain confidence, etc.

This is also true for dogs that will be used in competition obedience. Again, I think using positive reinforcement methods are fine...but, again, I'd stay away from corrections...With competition obedience, you want the dog to look happy and like it's having fun...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby Sonnenschein » November 26th, 2007, 7:49 pm

On November 14 2007, 2:22 PM, mnp13 wrote:
Honestly, we even let our puppies bite...at least we don't correct them for it. For example, we may trade them for something else, but we don't correct it (unless it's plain vicious, like with Rocky...however, as a forewarning, we probably ruined Rocky with all the corrections we gave him).


Actually, that was what I was thinking of when I wrote it.
I've always taught basic obedience when training a puppy for Schutzhund and french ring/mondioring......it does not dimish the dogs "drive" as long as it's strictly positive reinforcement. :)
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