different training styles

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Postby rockermom » March 14th, 2006, 5:04 pm

ahhhh A soft dog I like that.
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Postby mnp13 » March 14th, 2006, 5:32 pm

If he understands a choke collar up behind his ears, compulsion he has been trained at some point using compulsion. How else would he recognize and respect the collar? Jerking on a flat collar is also a correction.

I didn't say whip him until you raise welts. I said crack him with the end of the leash. Ruby needs a tap that says "remember me, I'm in control here" Riggs needs a little more oomph that says "hey, brat boy, pay attention!"

Yes, the red ears and eyes are stress. However stress does not mean "let him act like a jerk", and ignoring commands that you said he knows and hoovering the floor is not behavior you should be allowing.
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Postby Maryellen » March 14th, 2006, 6:10 pm

when rocky was in the other class he was showing signs of stress at being jerked around, thats why i said if he was to get a smack on the butt w/ the leash ut nugt ooops rufus hit the keys, if he gets a smack no matter how light or hard w/ the leash it would not help his training.. he is a soft dog as i met him and saw what he is about. some dogs that are really soft cant handle rougher stuff
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Postby rockermom » March 14th, 2006, 7:19 pm

I respect your opinion. Thanks but no thanks on the crack on butt advice I wont use it. Crack on the butt no good for ROcky. And yes he went through beginer and novice using corections with a choke type collar. I decided to try a different style since this was not working anymore for Rocky. I am doing training for enjoyment and socialization originally hoping he could do therapy. However that particular trainer does not believe in use of Prong on a scale of 1-10 he considers a prong a 10 correction to be used in extreme issues, nor would he ever recommend a crack. We were even instructed not to raise our hands in frnt of dogs face for commands. I am trying different methods. If it comes down to needing to be given harsh commands I will stop going to obedience. Since all is good at home and on walks through my community. THat is the main reason I got a dog anyway as companion. Anyone else have thoughts on using Gentle Leader chest harness in class?
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Postby mnp13 » March 14th, 2006, 7:20 pm

He doesn't sound all that 'soft' to me. Obviously verbal corrections aren't enough for him if he is ignoring them. If he was that soft, all he would need is a NO for him to stop. Treating him like he is made of glass just lets him walk all over you.

A correction with proper force and proper timing only needs to be done once. If you have to repeat then you are not getting the point across which means you need to up it.
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Postby rockermom » March 14th, 2006, 7:28 pm

Sorry wont change my mind. Soft or Not. My dad is heavily involved in agility. He has been helping me bring up a sound dog. His community of dog friends believe positive is best. I am trying positive instead of yelling all the time. It was not enjoyable to me. this training, Its new for him which is why he is not listening. I went from giving him a pop the second his nose hit the floor. To now try luring him with a better treat. It takes time it will do no harm. I got your point and respect what works for you and your dogs. Thanks for answering my post all advice welcome.
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Postby Romanwild » March 14th, 2006, 10:13 pm

I was 90% positive with Dreyfus for a long time. I still feell that most behaviors (99.9%) should be taught through positive means.

I was always concerned about over correcting so other then the squirt bottle and a firm NO I would give a tiny leash pop on a flat collar. For the small stuff it worked. But when it comes to jumping up on guests, pulling on the leash, acting like an idiot around other dogs, he needed something more.

The prong with about a #8 correction is when I can get his attention. He is not hurt. There is no "harm" done. I can have his tail wagging within a couple of seconds of the correction. That he understands. Sticking a treat or even his laser in front of him when a dog is giving him the eye or when he spots a rabbitt in the back yard won't cut the mustard. :|

I always try positive first but in the real world a dog needs to know positive and negative. Some times it's a matter of life and death.
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Postby SisMorphine » March 15th, 2006, 12:28 am

I took Wally to class about two months after I got him. He spent the whole time staring at the door. He would not do ANYTHING but stare at the door. It was horrible.

Now, over a year later, we are in the post-grad class (well I'm semi-apparenticing so I get to bring him with me). He is doing EVERY command I give him and has other people in the class pissed that their dog won't pay attention to them.

This time around I use some really high value treats (homemade liver brownies) plus I have been working with him since we took the first class at home and in random public places. It took a looooooooong time but now I have one of the few obedient Greyhounds that I know of. And frankly, I think he's the most obedient :wink:
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Postby a-bull » March 15th, 2006, 8:00 am

Maryellen wrote:cracking rocky on the butt with the leash will not work for him..he is a soft dog.. if carolann cracked him with the leash on his butt she would probably ruin him to be hand/leash shy.. i dont suggest any type of compulsion training for rocky as he is a soft dog.. and , my dogs have done the same thing in training class, especially the first few times in a new class. it will settle down , and rocky will behave and learn.
when his eyes turn red and his inside of ears too that is just him being stressed.. its a new environment and he has to get used to it.


I agree with this.

Both my dogs have behaved the same way in new, group training classes, also. Training classes are more than a bit different than your home environment, and it just takes time for some dogs to settle into the routine of the class and begin learning. All those dogs, new people, new smells, distractions, stress, all kinds of goodies for just doing tricks, lol . . .

I have one stubborn dog and one stress machine, I use a harness on both, and both trained beautifully wearing harnesses.

When your dog acts up in training classes, you always feel like the only frootloop in the class, but you're not. There were more of us before you. :)
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Postby a-bull » March 15th, 2006, 8:04 am

SisMorphine wrote:I took Wally to class about two months after I got him. He spent the whole time staring at the door. He would not do ANYTHING but stare at the door. It was horrible.

Now, over a year later, we are in the post-grad class (well I'm semi-apparenticing so I get to bring him with me). He is doing EVERY command I give him and has other people in the class pissed that their dog won't pay attention to them.

This time around I use some really high value treats (homemade liver brownies) plus I have been working with him since we took the first class at home and in random public places. It took a looooooooong time but now I have one of the few obedient Greyhounds that I know of. And frankly, I think he's the most obedient :wink:


This is another great point.

Timing is everything. :)
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Postby rockermom » March 15th, 2006, 8:25 am

Thanks all I dont feel like the worst in class. Some other people have worse issues than I. I just feel like they are not seeing the real Rocky. I am not using all positive neither does my dad. I use a penny can when needed which I only had to use once for a major counter surfing issue. In the class using leash pops for sniffing the floor, Rocky was starting to show his dislike of it. He was starting to not like the trainer comming to pet him fearing he was going to grab his collar and yell shame on you for being a dog. I am not saying I will not go back to leash pops or that it is wrong. I saw dogs in Novice class who no longer needed corrections. But these dogs were in the class for years. Whats important is it is working for Rocky at home. When he is eating and my 11 yr old can say leave it and take the dish away. THats whats important. I am now going to class for FUN and Socialization for Rocky and for me. THis is why I was looking for validation on the harness making it more enjoyable. So I have decided rest of the week I will spend time training extra on regular collar. Go to class regular collar. If he is doing same thing which when it comes to the food I wont be surprised. I will put the harness on. It cant hurt with only a few classes left. Oh And by the way Rocky does respond to a firm no. Or what are you doing. He runs and hides behind the table. I would like to try the food in the box with holes someone suggested. it sounds like a good way. I may try food on the floor too. I also have to go buy what the trainer is using for treats. Must be better value than mine.
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