Riggs

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Postby Karen » March 5th, 2006, 8:38 pm

Chris Fraize wrote:Karen,

Riggs has been shown and NEVER stacked they proper way. He is not pushing her buttons he just doesn't understand what she wants. Though we have bred and finished Grand Champions, we do not put much into conformation competitions.

You could easily put the dog in avoidance of the stand and coffee cans if you do it wrong. This would make his obedience and personal protection work much more difficult.

You write as if you know the dog. Have you ever met Riggs?

Safe training,
Chris Fraize


Gee Chris from all your postings you seem to say you necer make a mistake. Are you saying you never taught the dog to stack yet expected him to go into the show ring without the proper training? You're the one saying stuff about him testing her etc. That is pushing buttons is it not?

You never had the dog on a grooming table? As in off the ground? A pause table? The cans are the height not the total width. What dog is going to be averse to atanding on a 1x1 platform or even an 8 inch by 8 inch one that is STEADY? If he had been taught stand and stack as a puppy and stand for exam (part of obedience is it not?) then showing him would have been easier all the way around, right? According to you the dogs are exposed to all sorts of new things so standing less than a foot off the ground and learning to set 1 foot at a time ought to be a piece of cake, right? After all he's been on far scarier things, correct?

Funny you billed him as show quality yet you are stating you never taught him how to behave and trained him properly for the breed ring and have no truck with conformation showing. Odd comments that, seeing how you billed him as show worthy and all.

Michelle asked for advice and I gave her some that actually works. Worked on Poms, Pits, and a freak of an Ibizan. Are you saying they are able to handle it more as a new experience than this dog?
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Postby Jenn » March 5th, 2006, 8:40 pm

:) WOW, he's beautiful, and awesome build!! Just gorgeous!!
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Postby Chris Fraize » March 5th, 2006, 8:54 pm

Hello Karen,

Once again your "charm" is showing through. You have a "Unique" view of the world. Some things never change.

You were difficult to communicate with years ago and that seems to be the case here again. I wish you luck in your future endeavors. I hope things change in how you communicate with others in the future. For now I’m done with trying to understand you.

Safe training,
Chris Fraize
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Postby Karen » March 5th, 2006, 9:10 pm

Chris Fraize wrote:Hello Karen,

Once again your "charm" is showing through. You have a "Unique" view of the world. Some things never change.

You were difficult to communicate with years ago and that seems to be the case here again. I wish you luck in your future endeavors. I hope things change in how you communicate with others in the future. For now I’m done with trying to understand you.

Safe training,
Chris Fraize


Oh brother. You didn't answer the question though did you Chris? No matter how you slice it Riggs has to be more intelligent than the Ibizan (i would HOPE anyway) and if being a foot off the ground didn't faze him, why would it faze Riggs? It should not, right?

Why would this not build trust in michelle from the dog? She is asking him something very simple and uncomplicated that he isn't going to get hurt at, right? So what's the big deal, really? she's not asking him to stack on a saw horse or something.

As to years ago, you really want to go there? You seem to forget what really happened. That has no bearing on advice to teach a dog to stack.

Edited to add: you know my email address and IM addy you can even take it to PM if you have an issue being questioned about your thinking this would aversely affect the dog.
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Postby Romanwild » March 5th, 2006, 9:43 pm

I'm new to the show world but I have taken classes and one 2 day seminar. The coffee can idea sounds like it isn't necessary. I mean it isn't rocket science. Reach down and move the leg. :|

I don't get the free stacking thing either. What does that show? Alston doesn't teach it. He says that free stacking is another way for your dog to not look his best. He teaches that you should always stack your dog yourself. It takes a couple of seconds.

Do some judges ask for a free stack?
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Postby odnarb » March 5th, 2006, 9:48 pm

Romanwild wrote:Do some judges ask for a free stack?



Yes, because a dog that is TRULY built properly will stack on its own. Anybody can make a crappy dog look better with a crafty way of stacking the dog. But the dog stacking itself? You see what you get.

If you don't teach your dog to free stack, you are going to be screwed under many judges.
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Postby Karen » March 5th, 2006, 9:50 pm

Romanwild wrote:I'm new to the show world but I have taken classes and one 2 day seminar. The coffee can idea sounds like it isn't necessary. I mean it isn't rocket science. Reach down and move the leg. :|

I don't get the free stacking thing either. What does that show? Alston doesn't teach it. He says that free stacking is another way for your dog to not look his best. He teaches that you should always stack your dog yourself. It takes a couple of seconds.

Do some judges ask for a free stack?


On the down and back you have three seconds in which the dog has to hit the mark without a visible clue from you. The judge is right there looking. Want the dog to stand easty westy, cockeyed, look cow hocked because it can? No you want it to know that at the halt it has to free stack its self and stand there looking like it owns the joint. That is a lasting impression the judge will have as you head back around and they are looking onto the next dog.

It looks better the less fussing you do in the ring too. if the dog can use a hand signal to hit a mark and STAY it doesn't draw a judge's eye to what you're trying to hide.

Alston is good as a tool but he isn't the be all and end all of handlers. Peter Greene (retired now) showed the Terriers to absolute perfection.
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Postby Romanwild » March 5th, 2006, 9:54 pm

odnarb wrote:
Romanwild wrote:Do some judges ask for a free stack?



Yes, because a dog that is TRULY built properly will stack on its own. Anybody can make a crappy dog look better with a crafty way of stacking the dog. But the dog stacking itself? You see what you get.

If you don't teach your dog to free stack, you are going to be screwed under many judges.


Dreyfus can do it but I don't think it shows that a dog is truly built properly.

I always here about people hiding faults but how stupid can a judge be? You can't hide faults no mattter how crafty you think you are.
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Postby ellie@ny » March 5th, 2006, 9:55 pm

"Do some judges ask for a free stack?"-yes,so you have to be prepared...Lately It's happening more and more...(AKC)
And actually,if you teach your dog to do a nice freestack,It's show your dog nice!Just check out the Westminster videos....
I was at G.A. seminar too,and he gives you very good ideas,but you can combinate with something else...Like he says no food and free stack,but lately everybody use it in UKC and AKC too... :|
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Postby odnarb » March 5th, 2006, 10:00 pm

Romanwild wrote:Dreyfus can do it but I don't think it shows that a dog is truly built properly.



On a dog with proper structure, standing in a nice stack is just a comfortable way of standing, so they tend to do it naturally. If a dog is standing screwy, why is it standing that way? Why is it shifting weight to a different area? It wouldn't do that if it was a truly sound dog. All dogs can stand funny occasionally, but if it is the norm rather than the exception, I'd be skeptical.


I always here about people hiding faults but how stupid can a judge be? You can't hide faults no mattter how crafty you think you are.



A good stack can hide a roach, make the angulation look differently, hide an easty westy front....

The list goes on and on...
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Postby Romanwild » March 5th, 2006, 10:01 pm

Karen wrote:
Want the dog to stand easty westy, cockeyed, look cow hocked because it can?


If a dog looks that way then it's probably is because he is easty westy etc..
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Postby Karen » March 5th, 2006, 10:10 pm

Romanwild wrote:Karen wrote:
Want the dog to stand easty westy, cockeyed, look cow hocked because it can?


If a dog looks that way then it's probably is because he is easty westy etc..


Nope. A bad stop can make a great dog discombobulated. A bad stop can lose the whole shooting match. just go try and get great shots of a dog you know doesn't have any of the above faults. I guarantee you'll see all of the above more than once in the out takes. That split second of the dog being a dink can color the whole shebang
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Postby Murfins » March 6th, 2006, 5:57 am

Michelle -

He is fabulous looking - truly amazing shape. :)
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Postby mnp13 » March 6th, 2006, 12:28 pm

Murfins wrote:Michelle -

He is fabulous looking - truly amazing shape. :)


Thanks! :D I'm almost frightened to think of how he will look once he is on raw and back in training for weight pull. He'll also go running with me, which Ruby hates anyway.

Geeze people.... I know nothing about stacking past the last time I did it with Ruby she looked horrible because she is so poorly put together. Riggs won't stack because Riggs won't stand still. Please notice that his tail is blurry in almost every picture - and the shutter speed was 125, not exactly slow.

When I manage to get him to stand still I will worry about stacking him. In my extensive six days of ownership I just haven't managed to teach him 10 different commands. Sorry.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 6th, 2006, 1:00 pm

In my extensive six days of ownership I just haven't managed to teach him 10 different commands. Sorry.


Slacker. :wink:
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 6th, 2006, 3:18 pm

Ya know, I must be slower than I thought I was. I thought you were putting the dogs feet IN the cans. :oops:
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Postby Maryellen » March 6th, 2006, 3:20 pm

you and me both debby, i thought the same thing, i was thinking, how are they going to get his paws in cans..... we are both on the slow train together... :oops:
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Postby Jesseca » March 6th, 2006, 4:18 pm

Michelle, he's a nice looking dog. I can't wait to see him as he progresses along. :)
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Postby DemoDick » March 6th, 2006, 7:28 pm

Riggs has a hard mouth. He left four canine marks on my inner thigh (one of which bled) and a large bruise on my left shin. This was through a heavy pair of bite pants.

I'm not used to working a leg dog so my timing sucks, but at least I managed to limit him to one crotch bite. The little bastard really likes to inflict pain. His tail speeds into a blur when he gets a pinch reaction from the decoy.

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