tre obedience

Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 18th, 2007, 1:26 pm

he's a work in progress, and these were taken the first few times he came to this field, so he's a little distracted and forging a bit, but i think he's starting to look nice.

fuss
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look
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recall (needs some work on his position)
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there's something fishy going on in the background here...
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wait a minute...
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ahh yes, now i see, the difference between brooks and tre!
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and then there's this one beautiful dog i know...
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i'm very open to training suggestions right now-i'm trying to take tre back to the beginning and start over with new methods, like the look command, and i'm gonna stop tucking a toy under my arm so that i can work on him looking in my eyes (which it only seems like he's doing here) while heeling. also i want to get really automatic sits, downs, stands in motion, like he's been shot and almost takes a jump back to do them. so that's where we're at right now.
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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2007, 3:32 pm

does tre like food?

also, how are you using the tug as a reward....when I use the tug with nisha (or tj), if one of them looks away, I make them miss the tug several times....when they look in my eyes, ONLY THEN do they get the tug....I still use it tucked under my arm...but they get teased when they look away, and get the toy when they look at me....

As far as the fast down, stands, etc...focus on one at a time...don't teach all 3 at the same time....the dog has to fully understand what you are asking of him,and putting in the context of motion, is different than doing it while standing still...

However, a good way to teach speed is to teach it when the dog is standing still...and I use food (so does Greg). For example, if the dog is in a sit, and I want it to go quickly down, I use the food to lure it down FAST....same things with all the other behaviors....

I like to teach the down in motion first...the first several times I do it, I use food, and I hobble step myself so I can guide the dog down....after the dog sorta gets it, I start adding in pinch collar corrections....this helps really establish what I want....

I do the sit with a leash, and pull up...

For the stand, I wrap a leash around the dogs waist (towards the tail) and put the other leash on the pinch collar....when I walk, I actually put more pressure towards the end of the leash going around the dog's waist...and I don't just stay stand, I start it by saying stand-stay...it's the hardest thing for them to learn b/c they naturally want to follow...so I reinforce it with the stay command...eventually you can take it out when the dog gets it...

Finally, for forging on the heel....walk the dog against a fence...it'll fix it in one session....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 18th, 2007, 3:46 pm

yeah tre likes food...a lot! i usually use the natural balance sausage looking treats all cut into tiny pieces when i use it, and i usually only use it in this type of training when i'm teaching him something for the first time.

what do you mean walk the dog along a fence? maybe i used the wrong word. i meant he steps out in front of me too much, i want his shoulder at my knee.

tre understands what a stand is roughly, i want to start getting him to really understand it by having him go into it from a sit or a down or a walk or run so he understands it doesn't just mean stop moving it's a position. thoughts?
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 18th, 2007, 3:49 pm

knox looks nice though, right?! what a flashy dog he is. just got his sch II, he'll have his 3 in no time, but he's had some surgeries on his knee that are have always been a small problem but are starting to be a bigger problem. i would hate to see him stop working because of something like that, he's such an amazing dog, but i guess you gotta do what you gotta do.
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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2007, 4:05 pm

On July 18 2007, 2:46 PM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:yeah tre likes food...a lot! i usually use the natural balance sausage looking treats all cut into tiny pieces when i use it, and i usually only use it in this type of training when i'm teaching him something for the first time.


Okay, cool...

what do you mean walk the dog along a fence? maybe i used the wrong word. i meant he steps out in front of me too much, i want his shoulder at my knee.


Hold the leash behind your back rather than in front of you....this should help keep the dog back....also, maybe go back to square 1, and use the food...hold the food down for him (exactly where you want his head), and let him drive your hand for the food....

Try the leash behind the back first....

tre understands what a stand is roughly, i want to start getting him to really understand it by having him go into it from a sit or a down or a walk or run so he understands it doesn't just mean stop moving it's a position. thoughts?


start with it in a stationary position...use the leash the same way (around his waste), and use it to pull him up from either a down or a sit....then give him food and praise for it....mix it up on him....sit, down, stand, down, stand, sit, etc...you'll see which he does better with (either from sit to stand or down to stand), then whichever one he does better with, only use that one for a while....for example, TJ seems to do much better with down to stand, so that's the only one we're working on right now....

As far as the motion exercise....by teaching that it's stopping (and not sitting or downing), then reinforcing him for good stand is reinforcing that he's on all 4's....

knox looks nice though, right?! what a flashy dog he is. just got his sch II, he'll have his 3 in no time, but he's had some surgeries on his knee that are have always been a small problem but are starting to be a bigger problem. i would hate to see him stop working because of something like that, he's such an amazing dog, but i guess you gotta do what you gotta do.


Knox definitely looks good...I love the look of mals...I'm a little partial to them!!!

I'll try to get some footage of Jue this weekend....he actually does a horse prance...everyone makes comments about that....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 18th, 2007, 4:10 pm

oh what are those horses called, Lipizzaner or something like that, not spelled right. i love it when dogs do that. i don't think it's the sort of thing you can train though, i think that you can teach a dog a focused heal and then it's all them whether or not they do that fancy prance. i definitely love it though-very cool.
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Postby katiek0417 » July 18th, 2007, 4:13 pm

On July 18 2007, 3:10 PM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:oh what are those horses called, Lipizzaner or something like that, not spelled right. i love it when dogs do that. i don't think it's the sort of thing you can train though, i think that you can teach a dog a focused heal and then it's all them whether or not they do that fancy prance. i definitely love it though-very cool.


It's actually genetic....although not all of Jue's offspring do it....

You CAN teach it....but it's more work than it's worth....
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 18th, 2007, 4:29 pm

cool. hey i found a video of me using the leash behind my back for a sit in motion and i'm uploading it now so that should be up here sometime today. let me know if it's what you were talking about.
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Postby doberkim » July 21st, 2007, 9:00 pm

On July 18 2007, 3:29 PM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:cool. hey i found a video of me using the leash behind my back for a sit in motion and i'm uploading it now so that should be up here sometime today. let me know if it's what you were talking about.


He's forging because hes not always looking UP at you, hes turning his head a bit to look AT you (or the tug). It looks like a really good foundation, tho! I personally don't like a tug under my left arm for precisely that reason - if I have to use it, I hang it over my shoulder so he can look at it FROm heel position, not forging. (it also has to be that way since I have big boobs that get in the way!).

In all honesty though, even at higher SchH levels (I won't talk about other sports since I haven't seen enough of their obedience), it's nowhere near as competitive as AKC ob where you will get dinged constant points for the wrong heel position. It's all judge relative, and at nationals it may be a lot more tight than at a local club trial, but the heel position and all the forging and bumping a dog does is not frowned upon as much as in AKC, and some people simply dont care, period! My impression has been that the heel position is simply not so stringent - I've seen many dogs that when they finish don't get to a full straight sit, but rarely get dinged much if at all for points. It's part of the problem I have with my own dobe - he was allowed to bump so much in the beginning, now that we are prepping for the AKC ring he's going to cost us a lot of points!

in terms of any positions out of motion or changing positions/signals - or anything, really - if you TEACH it fast, they will do it fast. If you allow them to do it slow in training, you are going to have a hell of a time getting them to speed it up later. The easiest way I have found to do that is work them IN DRIVE - my dog is a lot faster if he wants whatever I have - be it tennis balls, food, or tug. I did use food to lure a fast down, I use food to heavily reward fast sits (you can also do scoot sits to get fast ones).

I haven't found working up against a wall to help for forging or bumping, but I have had good luck using that for a dog that crabs (walks with his back legs out), but YMMV. For bumping, I lift my left leg extra high and it hits him when he is too close, and for forging, I make sure I *never* reinforce that position. You reward him with tug when he is in the WRONG position, and he will never know what he is doing is wrong, and won't know the difference between the real heel position and the forgey one. If i want to reinforce, i make him come back to the correct heel position and once he is in it, i let him know and THEN reinforce.

good videos - I love ob ones more than anything! post more!
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Postby Beth » July 21st, 2007, 9:43 pm

Great videos. Thanks for sharing them.
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 23rd, 2007, 10:40 am

thanks so much for the advice! yeah...i don't have the "big boob problem," i guess this is one of those few times where i'm fortunate for it?! i've restarted all of tre's training, mostly with food, but when i do use the tug it's out of sight. i can tell he's pretty stressed about it, really confused, so i'm really having to be patient and positive and take my time, because i think once i show him what i mean he'll do it better than ever. i'll post a video soon, but yeah, i didn't realize i was rewarding him in the wrong position until i watched these, so i'm gonna start filming all the time.
so far i think tre has figured out that he is to look in my eyes, but he's having a hard time figuring out that the position is a little different but the expectations are the same (focus, swinging his hips, etc). but we'll see. i'll try to post some tomorrow.
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Postby doberkim » July 23rd, 2007, 10:27 pm

yeah it can be funny how much we dont realize that we are inadvertently rewarding the wrong behavior!


cant wait to see the new videos...
ARCH Bowie's Semper Fidelis v DRU, CD RN RL3 ATT WAC TT CGC (2/3 CD-H, 1/3 D-CD, 6/10 RL1X, 5/10 RL2X)
Beja's Bombs Away v Bowie, RN PTT CGC
http://otchrah.blogspot.com/
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » August 1st, 2007, 6:31 pm

so tre is doing a lot better about not trying to be in front of me and looking me in the eye, but i feel like he's lost a little drive. when the tug is under my arm it's all there, he heels like he's almost dragging his butt on the ground and he swings his hips beautifully, but when the tug is out of sight, even if he knows where it is, he still does everything, just much lazier. any thoughts?
i've been thinking i'll just start rewarding more often and bigger and also i was thinking that i could crate him for a bit then release him out and give him an immediate command and the second he does it a surprise reward that he didn't know i had appears suddenly, this way he learns that doesn't have to see it to know that he's gonna be rewarded somehow at any given time. anybody tried anything like this before? i want to minimize the stress on him and i feel like this new approach is confusing him and killing his drive a bit, even if it's only temporarily, and i want to get that enthusiasm back obviously!
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