tre videos!

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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 12th, 2007, 10:58 am

yes! so i finally got a few videos of tre working-the first is a bark and hold (and i accidentally try to out him too soon-oops!) the second ones are the first courage tests he's ever done-i'm pretty proud! obviously he's just a beginner, so be nice to us, but i think he's doing great! on the courage test his bark sounds wimpy, it's because i'm holding his collar in a way that neither of us are used to. i'll be posting obedience videos sometime this week in the gallery too. oh yeah, and forgive the blair witch project cinematography!

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Postby iluvk9 » July 12th, 2007, 11:08 am

I know nothing about this topic, other than what I read here, but my question is why does the decoy have a whip and am I correct in that he hit Tre with it in the second video?
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 12th, 2007, 11:28 am

ahh yes-it looks abusive doesn't it! that's a really flimsy thing but it's really common to train with a whip or a stick when doing bitework- partially for the noise it makes, which is used to make sure the dog isn't shying off to loud noises but actually getting more agitated, also because when you wvave something over your head you look scarier-so it's used as an agitator, and in schutzhund in particular the stick is used to hit the dog over the shoulders and/or hips (where it doesn't hurt) strong enough to test if it's gonna freak the dog out and make them drop the bite but lite enough to not actually hurt the dog. tre, or any other dog i've ever watched, has never been hurt or even been afraid of being hit by the stick. trust me-he's my boy, i wouldn't let him be getting hurt! thanks though! it's mostly used to test courage.
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Postby iluvk9 » July 12th, 2007, 11:29 am

Oh!! We use crops when we ride horses, to nudge them on, not "beat" them. I guess it is a similar philosophy.
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 12th, 2007, 11:32 am

i don't know why i didn't think of that analogy-yeah, it is a similar philosophy, although i know very little about horses!
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Postby katiek0417 » July 12th, 2007, 3:48 pm

Yeah, it's used in PSA as both an agitator and a test of the dog's nerves....when introduced properly, most dogs will not have a problem with it...we start using them on our dogs very early (not necessarily hitting them), but introducing the sounds to them....
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Postby mnp13 » July 12th, 2007, 11:08 pm

On July 12 2007, 11:29, iluvk9 wrote:Oh!! We use crops when we ride horses, to nudge them on, not "beat" them. I guess it is a similar philosophy.


Yes, there is a difference between using a crop to beat a horse and using one properly in training, just like whip work in dog sport. But lets not kid ourselves, both hurt. That's not to say that they cause injury but yes, they do hurt.
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 12th, 2007, 11:34 pm

i guess what i mean when i say it doesn't hurt is that not significantly, not enough for the dog to flinch or for me to worry about it.
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Postby DemoDick » July 13th, 2007, 2:07 am

Looks good. What are you going to compete him in?

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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 13th, 2007, 3:52 am

currently looking at sch, but i would really like to cross train him possibly in psa, there is a club nearby i'm interested in, i just kinda feel like i should tackle the sch first, what's your opinion?
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Postby katiek0417 » July 13th, 2007, 10:13 am

On July 13 2007, 2:52 AM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:currently looking at sch, but i would really like to cross train him possibly in psa, there is a club nearby i'm interested in, i just kinda feel like i should tackle the sch first, what's your opinion?


This is just my opinion....if the trainer works the dog the right way, you should be able to do either one of them first...

However, I will say that laying the foundation for tracking is much harder once you have a lot of obedience...on the other hand, I've seen a lot of Sch dogs (who are taught to track) have trouble in PSA where the attention heel is required (they seem to want to track b/c of all the distractions)...

Which brings up another point...you should train the obedience with a ton of distractions (decoy on the field, toys and food on the field, stuff being thrown at them, etc) even if you plan on doing Sch first....this will make a switch to PSA later much easier
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby DemoDick » July 13th, 2007, 11:35 am

What Katie said.

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Postby brooksybrooks1 » July 13th, 2007, 3:50 pm

yeah, i think the bigger question is that should i be training for them simultaneously or should i choose for now? tre started his training only a year ago, tops.
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Postby katiek0417 » July 13th, 2007, 4:10 pm

On July 13 2007, 2:50 PM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:yeah, i think the bigger question is that should i be training for them simultaneously or should i choose for now? tre started his training only a year ago, tops.


I would stick with one for now...

I would say, though, the last thing you want to do for PSA is to train the patterns...stay away from pattern training...choose components, and work on them...but don't put them all together...

Actually, I have a friend who just got her SchI, and she said the same things for Sch...don't train the entire routine....just components, and, if at any time, your dog starts to anticipate, change it up...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby DemoDick » July 14th, 2007, 1:09 am

Another thing to remember is the two sports require a different approach from the handler, not just the dog. Whereas Schutzhund is patterned and there are no surprises, a key component of PSA is the surprise-based scenario. I've seen a few people who are very good schutzhund handlers completely lose it for a second on the field when the situation suddenly evolved in an unanticipated direction. Handler is lost, dog is lost, and points are being deduced. PSA, or any surprise-based sport, requires a cool head and the ability to adapt in split second time. I love just drawing up a scenario and practicing it (like a send out of a vehicle, out and recall through the opposite window, then a resend while the vehicle is moving about 5 mph). That's the kind of pointless stuff that I like to do. But I really think it helps on trial day when you KNOW you're dog is easily capable of what's coming. Less stress for you, which in turn translates down the leash and allows you to work with your dog.

Sometimes though, you go from that type of training to militaristc sch marching with crisp turns and swinging arms and the dog thinks "Did mom join the Gestapo?"

I think you just have to be realistic about what it is you want to achieve and be ready to sacrifice or at least postpone some of your goals if necessary.

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