I've had it! -training collar advice

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Postby Malli » February 28th, 2006, 9:49 pm

I confess, I'm one of those, but I'm sick of it. Every time my dog walks with anyone other then just myself its stressful. I can give a leash correction, a HARD one, I get the "hey, whoa!" look from my dog, and then he simply goes back to doing whatever and yanking my butt all over the place. I'm sure I started out (way back when) inconsistent and without proper leash corrections, and I guess I waited too long, because he just does not really seem to care. I have to tug or pop hard enough that the movement I put into it looks awful, I end up hollering and being stressed out, basically, walks with anyone but just us 2 aren't fun . This has been going on for at least 3 years, and I've no idea why I waited so long.
its rediculous, I consider his traing pretty well 1/2 decent in other areas, but we are terrible in this one.
I at one time had him on a traditional chain trainer, and currently have him on a martingale style collar, and yes I make sure its tightened well and up right behind his ears.
Prongs seem to have great success but I hate the look of them and worry about the image it might project.
*sigh*
this has gone on far too long, help?

Malli
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Postby Purple » February 28th, 2006, 11:48 pm

The prong is your friend!
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Postby Romanwild » March 1st, 2006, 12:05 am

I said the same thing a few hours ago but I DO use a prong!

Dreyfus needs major corrections that I am not comfortable giving especially in public.

I've been pondering the same question. :|
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Postby Malli » March 1st, 2006, 2:31 am

Romanwild:
Its so nice to know you're having the same problem!!!
My boyfriend commented that it'd be better to have the prong and just use the tiny correction I'd need then to whip out that huge correction I use now in public. :|

I have to correct so hard, if I'm getting a reaction from him-a look, that should mean I'm doing it right, right??

I should have mentioned that I'm pretty sure I've been correcting properly for at least 2 years. It was only in about the first year or so of his life where his training and the consistency I gave were iffy.

Is it possible that he just doesn't care? Thats how it seems...
The issue is only usually with a new stimulus, i.e. when he walks with someone else and me, when he walks with another dog (like today, with my friend and her boxer), or with intense things like other dogs and animals. The rest of the time he responds pretty well to corrections, like in training, or in situations where the distraction or stimulus isn't crazy interesting.

Bleh, I feel like a failure right now. We are so good at so many things yet we can't even leash walk?

poop

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Postby ellie@ny » March 1st, 2006, 8:47 am

I'm in this group too!!! :D I be honest,I felt the same about the prong collar till last week.Until I saw on THIS board how many people using it etc.So I went to training class with my big boy on Sat.,and the trainer told me too...to get one,because he doesn't care about food,anything when there are other dogs arround him.When I trained him at home,he's doing everything like a pro GSD! :) So after the training lesson,we went to the store,got him one,and he's acting like an angel on the leash now!!!But I can't wait the day,when he can wear normal collar again.... :(
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Postby Miakoda » March 1st, 2006, 1:48 pm

Dreyfus needs major corrections that I am not comfortable giving especially in public


LOL! I used to be the same way, but eventually said "screw it" & told my neighbors to call AC on me if they liked but I wasn't about to let my dogs get the best of me in public. :D
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Postby mnp13 » March 1st, 2006, 1:59 pm

I'm going to post my 'leash manners lesson' on another thread
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Postby SisMorphine » March 1st, 2006, 2:38 pm

I'm a big fan of the Gentle Leader Harness (the head harness is okay, but I think for any of the maligned breed it isn't a good idea as idiots often mistake them for muzzles). I know the GL harness isn't a popular choice with most people, but I can tell you as a dog walker/pet sitter who walks many different dogs of many different breeds each week, my most well behaved leash dogs are the ones wearing the GL harness that has been fit by a pro (NOT by the high school kids at PetCo, but a trainer who fits GL's as part of their job).

The leash hooks in the front. This way if the dog pulls the automatically are flipped around so they are facing you instead of walking forward. It doesn't take long at all for dogs to get the hang of it.
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Postby Malli » March 1st, 2006, 7:51 pm

when I had my dog on the GL face halter, he turned his head all crooked sideways and still pulled, he wore the hair off his nose where the straps were! Plus, I would really like something I can give a proper correction with, as we do training all the time and that is part of his training.

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Postby mnp13 » March 1st, 2006, 8:03 pm

I watched Chris do an evaluation of a dog with fear aggression problems on Tuesday. I wish I had had a video camera, the dog kept lunging at him and getting yanked around by her neck. There is no way that those collars are safe.

The evaluation was quite impressive, off came the halti, and he did the evaluation on the flat collar. By the end of the eval, the dog had gone from lunging and snapping and him to walking calmly next to him around the room...
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Postby pLaurent » March 4th, 2006, 2:09 pm

I think pulling is a pretty common problem with this breed.

I know I had a terrible pulling problem when I first got my Chloe.

and then he simply goes back to doing whatever and yanking my butt all over the place.


If he pulls and you follow him even one step, then he has won and figures that pulling works to get him where he wants to go.

Corrections don't help if you keep walking.

I can only tell you what worked for me, and that was to make a VERY abrupt and rapid and forceful"about face" and swiftly walk away every time my dog pulled. She did get a jar and a correction this way, but really didn't associate it with me, since when she was forced to turn and follow me, all I was doing was walking away - not yelling, or visibly correcting her. :D

For this I used a part chain Martingale collar. It did take a bit of time and many "about faces" but now I have a dog who does not pull!
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Postby dogcrazyjen » March 4th, 2006, 2:56 pm

Can Chris evaluate my Tess? She has fear issues, she is nervous with new people, although it they ignore her she is fine as long as I have food, and she is getting better all the time. It is the touching she has issues with. New people cannot reach for her or she sort of jumps back with a bark and puts her face between herself and the hand. She has not actually grabbed anyone, I am very careful with her, and do not let people near her who are not dog savvy. I do want to work this until she is reliable with all people, not that I will ever assume she is, nor trust any with her unattended. Let me know what he charges, and maybe I can make an appointment, or just bring her up for practice sometime.

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Postby mnp13 » March 4th, 2006, 3:03 pm

Chris lives in Maine, you'd have to talk to him about an evaluation. :)

Trust me, it's very worth the trip.

Is Tess a Pit Bull? what is her history? um... how about you start a new thread about her.
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Postby Malli » March 4th, 2006, 5:13 pm

I don't follow him, he weighs 75 lbs to my 135, so he can very easily pull me if I'm not watching his every move if he really wants to. The problem with the behavior is that it doesn't really happen between just me and him, it only happens on a walk with a seldom seen person or another dog, or when we see another dog(ie, something new and exciting). He walks almost perfectly alone with me, and responds to leash coirrections well. No one that I know wants to watch me correct my dog repeatdly, over and over, and I doubt many will want to go for a walk with us and have me stop every 5 feet (literally) and turn and walk in the other direction for another 10. Nor do we walk with other people often enough even if they would put up with it.
Your suggestion would have worked well had this been something I curbed early on for him, but he's almost 5 now, and since I waited so long I feel I need something more substantial.

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Postby mnp13 » March 4th, 2006, 5:40 pm

If you have to correct him repeatedly then you are not giving the level of correction that he needs. It should only take (at most) a few corrections to get your point across.
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Postby pLaurent » March 4th, 2006, 6:01 pm

I don't follow him, he weighs 75 lbs to my 135, so he can very easily pull me if I'm not watching his every move if he really wants to.


We understand that, but to your dog, it's "I pull and my owner follows me. I get what I want so I'll keep pulling."

My dog is fully capable of pulling me too, and has done so, to the point of my falling on ice or being yanked down hills.

If you are "correcting repeatedly" and there is no improvement, then it's not working and something else needs to be tried.

The "about face" method taught my dog to pay attention to what I was doing, and to be prepared to follow me at a moment's notice, which a dog isn't doing if it's forging ahead with no regard for you.

My dog is also very good now with the "heel"command which is very helpful in crowded, high traffic, or icy areas.

Maybe you have one person who would be willing to go along and help you with this?
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Postby mnp13 » March 4th, 2006, 6:10 pm

:goodStuff:
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Postby Malli » March 5th, 2006, 2:30 pm

The reason why I wanted the get him on the prong is just that. Its rediculous how hard I have to correct him in order to get my point across, and even then, I don't seem strong enough (not to mention the whole thing looks absolutely horrible). As I mentioned before, unfortunately it took me a long time to get corrections right (before I became training enlightened) and I think hes become very immune.
What I don't get is that he'll listen to corrections without stimulous (i.e. in situations he's very accustomed to -like walking with me-), I'll put much more muscle to it and if there's a stimulus (a new walking route, another dog to walk with) there and it just does not seem to matter :|

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Postby mnp13 » March 5th, 2006, 2:36 pm

Just curious, where in Canada are you?
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Postby Malli » March 5th, 2006, 11:48 pm

I'm in Victoria British Columbia.

I feel like a complete beginner and moron here, I don't what happened with his leash manners.

Sometimes if I'm walking someone elses dog I'll correct them (I don't tolerate bad-mannered dogs very well) and I've always had a really fast response to my corrections (obviously I tone them down).

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