Rant inside:Selfish People and Tantrums

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Postby Karen » February 27th, 2006, 12:34 am

Scott Dowd came on here all full of what he felt were great ideas pushing his agenda. We listened and discussed things civilly and were having what we thought was a good coversation. Seems he felt otherwise when he said take it private and we declined. Apparently the other place didn't like his tactics either.

Well because we didn't go with his flow he took the APBT Conformation site down. Poof it's gone and there was quite the nasty note to posters on his boards. I personally spent hours and hours and hours working on the health site before becoming disillusioned with the whole thing. I was thinking, here I am putting all my health stuff that was Cuddles' whole section here and for what? And stopped doing so.

He's vice prez of the National club and wants to be pres some day? Not bloody likely. I'll join the damn club to vote the other guy if I have to! This is still America where it is ok not to have the same views as the other guy. At least it was last time I checked. His well the site is mine and I pay for it is fine but I want the files I did mailed to me ASAP those are MINE. My pics, docs and info. I know a ton of people that supported him and the site sending pics and videos etc. plus writing articles. Talk about a slap in the face!

Rant over for now I guess
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 27th, 2006, 12:52 am

It's GONE??? You're kidding! :o
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Postby Karen » February 27th, 2006, 12:53 am

cheekymunkee wrote:It's GONE??? You're kidding! :o


Nope guess we pissed in his wheaties. They also locked the NAPBTA board over on purebredpuppyshit too.
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 27th, 2006, 12:53 am

I just checked, you ain't kidding! What a smurfing shame. So much good information down the drain.
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Postby Fear_the_Sheeple » February 27th, 2006, 1:29 am

I have no idea what went on, but it does sound petty. That's too bad, that was a great site.
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 27th, 2006, 1:53 am

Karen wrote:
cheekymunkee wrote:It's GONE??? You're kidding! :o


Nope guess we pissed in his wheaties. They also locked the NAPBTA board over on purebredpuppyshit too.


That board's been locked for a while now. The lasyt post was in January, I noticed it was locked a few weeks ago.
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Postby turtle » February 27th, 2006, 2:55 am

Wow, that's a shame. What a selfish and childish thing to do....

That's the downfall of this breed. Most of the people in it spend more time fighting amongst themselves than fighting for the dogs and their future...
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Postby JCleve86 » February 27th, 2006, 3:22 am

gf turtle wrote:Wow, that's a shame. What a selfish and childish thing to do....

That's the downfall of this breed. Most of the people in it spend more time fighting amongst themselves than fighting for the dogs and their future...
.


That was Scot's whole point with the NAPBTA idea...

I don't know what happened. I won't jump to conclusions, and I guess I don't see how this kind of post is productive. We all get a little discouraged sometimes, and I'd guess with the lackluster response to his idea, and seeing what many consider to be the last days of the breed, that's what happened with Scot (if anything did.)

Unless anyone has concrete evidence (and even if you do) I don't see any reason to stir the waters. Scot did a lot of good for this breed, whether he was well liked by everyone or not. I would feel perfectly comfortable saying that he is by far the best asset to this breed today. Why ruin that? What's the point? How will that help the breed?

So you didn't get along. Maybe he acted a bit jack-assed this past month...people make mistakes...get over it. Why create yet another rift within the breed?

I just don't get it. :|
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Postby Romanwild » February 27th, 2006, 7:43 am

hmmm? :confused:

He was working extrememly hard for the breed. I was a little concerned about burnout with him. I wouldn't call this selfish just yet. Maybe he just needs a break.

He's a member here. Maybe he would feel comfortable talking here when he's ready. :| I think he might have taken on more then anyone could handle. Maybe he just need to regroup and come back after a break.

I would not attack him at this point. It's not like he bought a puppy from a byb/puppymiller who fights their dogs. :)
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Postby Karen » February 27th, 2006, 8:36 am

JCleve86 wrote:
I don't know what happened. I won't jump to conclusions, and I guess I don't see how this kind of post is productive. We all get a little discouraged sometimes, and I'd guess with the lackluster response to his idea, and seeing what many consider to be the last days of the breed, that's what happened with Scot (if anything did.)

Unless anyone has concrete evidence (and even if you do) I don't see any reason to stir the waters. Scot did a lot of good for this breed, whether he was well liked by everyone or not. I would feel perfectly comfortable saying that he is by far the best asset to this breed today. Why ruin that? What's the point? How will that help the breed?

So you didn't get along. Maybe he acted a bit jack-assed this past month...people make mistakes...get over it. Why create yet another rift within the breed?

I just don't get it. :|


Why? Because when he lobbied for that site to be THE educational site for the breed and had it listed with UKC as the tool for judges to study etc. to get their lic. it became more than just "his" site. If he was reaching burn out the site should have been handed over to someone else in the club bills and all seeing how he kept bragging on how it was for the breed not the ego of Scott. The site supposedly belonged to the club as a teaching tool. Then in the past few months Scott started the mine mine mine syndrome. It's been brewing since about October. Funny, that's when he was elected to the Board of Officers. This is the proper behaviour for the VP of the club and a UKC judge to have? I don't think so.

He's the best thing for the breed? What exactly has he done for it? I want to know. In black and white what his accomplishments are. He built a website and bred some dogs and chased show points. Tons of people have done the same. What makes Scott better or different? He isn't. There are people in this breed that have slogged on harder and way longer than Scott who have felt no need for the pats on the back that he seems to feel is his due.

As to NAPBTA and his ideas, no one is going to join a club just on his say so. Instead of him being adult enough to keep discussing his ideas and others on a forum where he started it he takes his toys and goes home. If this is where NAPBTA is headed as far as leadership, let it die. Truthfully the club has not really done a ton of anything as far as BSL, fundraising, getting out there and doing instead of talking for a long long time. Way before Scott ever came along.

As far as another rift? Scott has been working towards a rift for years. He has said let's all sing around the campfire holding hands singing Kumbaya however how has his actions proven he was seriously dedicated to the welfare of the breed? He gets mad throws a tantrum and takes down a site he pushed and shoved in everyone's faces to get it to be the educational tool of UKC and then shuts it down. He kept canvassing for help, articles, posts on his board etc. yet when Roman offered twice did he get a real response? No. People emailed him offerring to help and got the same treatment. Why ask for help then ignore it?

The merle thing? Oh please there were those of is gathering signatures and petitioning UKC to add the DQ for merle way before he even stepped forward. If the members hadn't voted for it then UKC would have still been registering it today. He didn't do it all by himself as people seem to think.
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Postby Karen » February 27th, 2006, 8:45 am

Romanwild wrote:hmmm? :confused:

He was working extrememly hard for the breed. I was a little concerned about burnout with him. I wouldn't call this selfish just yet. Maybe he just needs a break.

He's a member here. Maybe he would feel comfortable talking here when he's ready. :| I think he might have taken on more then anyone could handle. Maybe he just need to regroup and come back after a break.

I would not attack him at this point. It's not like he bought a puppy from a byb/puppymiller who fights their dogs. :)


Oh really? Is that what you think? You have NO idea where Scott has gotten his outcross dogs, do you? He isn't above anyone else.

He pushed that site down everyone's throat for 2 years to get it to be THE site. Smaller ones went by the wayside to be swallowed by the behemoth. It was actually petitioned to UKC to be in a printable version to have judges use it. Who did that? Scott. Anyone asking why? Mine mine mine has no place anywhere if someone decides to do this.
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Postby Romanwild » February 27th, 2006, 9:00 am

Karen wrote:
Romanwild wrote:hmmm? :confused:

He was working extrememly hard for the breed. I was a little concerned about burnout with him. I wouldn't call this selfish just yet. Maybe he just needs a break.

He's a member here. Maybe he would feel comfortable talking here when he's ready. :| I think he might have taken on more then anyone could handle. Maybe he just need to regroup and come back after a break.

I would not attack him at this point. It's not like he bought a puppy from a byb/puppymiller who fights their dogs. :)


Oh really? Is that what you think? You have NO idea where Scott has gotten his outcross dogs, do you? He isn't above anyone else.


I got Dreyfus from a byb before I knew better. I was actually cracking a joke about DJ.

What did his farewell message say?

Anything said on the UKC boards?
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Postby Romanwild » February 27th, 2006, 9:05 am

The UKC board has been changed and some of the old links don't work anymore. Does that have anything to do with it?
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Postby Karen » February 27th, 2006, 10:27 am

Romanwild wrote:The UKC board has been changed and some of the old links don't work anymore. Does that have anything to do with it?


No and can you believe UKC paid a company to redo the site into that mess? Yuck. It's terrible and you can't find anything.

Nothing has been said on the UKC board yet. There are petitions out and letters being written about this to the national club by concerned members.

As to the reference to Diane, I know. My point is Scott HAS done the same thing yet he's above the criticism she is? The double standards in the breed are its downfall. What's wrong for one is wrong for all.
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 27th, 2006, 10:44 am

Romanwild wrote:
Karen wrote:
Romanwild wrote:hmmm? :confused:

He was working extrememly hard for the breed. I was a little concerned about burnout with him. I wouldn't call this selfish just yet. Maybe he just needs a break.

He's a member here. Maybe he would feel comfortable talking here when he's ready. :| I think he might have taken on more then anyone could handle. Maybe he just need to regroup and come back after a break.

I would not attack him at this point. It's not like he bought a puppy from a byb/puppymiller who fights their dogs. :)


Oh really? Is that what you think? You have NO idea where Scott has gotten his outcross dogs, do you? He isn't above anyone else.


I got Dreyfus from a byb before I knew better. I was actually cracking a joke about DJ.

What did his farewell message say?

Anything said on the UKC boards?



From what I gather this is his farewell statement, sounds sort of childish to me. :|

"Due to the lack of future for the American Pit Bull Terrier because it's stewards are lacking every single one the characteristics the breed stands for, this board is now extinct just like the breed will be! Cry with me a good bye!"
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Postby Romanwild » February 27th, 2006, 11:09 am

Are you kidding!

That is pretty sad. :nono:
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 27th, 2006, 11:18 am

And perhaps this post isn't productive BUT had I been one of the people who sent money to his organization and/or spent hours helping him with his website I would be DAMNED pissed off & want to know what happened. Nothing wrong with discussing it. :| As it is I did not send him money, I didn't get answers to the questions I had. I don't send money unless I know exactly what it will be used for and I didn't feel like chasing him around the internet.
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Postby babyreba » February 27th, 2006, 1:18 pm

well, it is a shame that the site was removed and all of that information is now unavailable to the public. i read scot's posts here and on PBF and while i thought his concepts were interesting, his delivery wasn't so hot.

i could see both sides of the argument: i do not want to justify the actions of the people who are ruining the pit bull breed by joining an organization that welcomes them; but at the same time, like it or not, these people are such a huge part of the breed that they can't be ignored.

i thought that the debates and arguments and discussions over the NAPBTA here and on PBF were actually interesting and productive, even if there was mega disagreement. and i really think that these kinds of discussions need to be had to make people think about where they stand and how they want to approach the problems facing them. there are probably tons of people who read these threads and digested them and actually formed opinions based on the info contained in them. and i see that as a good thing . . . scot, unfortunately, seemed to think it wasn't so good because people weren't seeing it his way.

i was merely an observer of those discussions, but they have stuck with me. like debbie, i didn't jump on board with his idea because there were way too many unanswered questions. and for me, there was too much hot-headedness when people asked questions. which is a huge turn off . . . people SHOULD ask questions, people should be thinking about these things, people should be constructively questioning those who would be stewards of the breed.
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Postby odnarb » February 27th, 2006, 1:28 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:And perhaps this post isn't productive BUT had I been one of the people who sent money to his organization and/or spent hours helping him with his website I would be DAMNED pissed off & want to know what happened. Nothing wrong with discussing it. :| As it is I did not send him money, I didn't get answers to the questions I had. I don't send money unless I know exactly what it will be used for and I didn't feel like chasing him around the internet.



Well, this little stunt of late certainly hasn't gone over well with many NAPBTA members. I know that there has been and probably will be more formal complaints over the very unbecoming public behavior of the VP. Telling people to join the club, get into bed with the BYBs, then publicly insulting anyone who questioned this logic was breed political suicide.

The APBT conformation site was a good one, especially for newbies and people learning about basic structure. From what I've heard from judges, they weren't using it as a tool as much as was bragged about, as the content was very biased, and everybody interperates the standard differently. That page was Scot's interperatation of the standard, not the definative picture of the standard. For example, I tended to favor the dogs he said were too lanky and lacked substance :|

Life will go on. Somebody else will make a similar site of their interperatation of the standard. In the end, it's not physical characteristics that are the demise of the breed, it's something that no website will ever be able accurately portray.
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Postby JCleve86 » February 27th, 2006, 1:45 pm

I don't know what happened. I still refuse to make assumptions about the whole thing or Scot's motivations. Though I will say this comment throws me off a bit:

"Due to the lack of future for the American Pit Bull Terrier because it's stewards are lacking every single one the characteristics the breed stands for, this board is now extinct just like the breed will be! Cry with me a good bye!"


So you just quit? Seems someone might be lacking what many consider to be THE crucial characterisitic that defines this breed: gameness.

I don't know what to think or say. I do know that at least for me, Scot made some of the biggest differences concerning my views of the breed. Nobody else, and I mean NOBODY did as good of a job of educating people on what the breed SHOULD look like. (Although I do agree with Odnarb...some of the dogs he considered to lack substance were dogs that I happened to really, really like, being great representatives of the ORIGINAL type within this breed). Either way, I didn't and don't see anyone who has done as much education regarding conformation as he has. Not the the public anyway. I'm sure folks have mentors and such that have helped them learn more, but there was no public tool as useful as his site.

His breeding practices were nobler than most as well. He was one of those who we could point to to say "this is how it should be done." Some folks disliked his decision to outcross to Tyson, but it seems to me that that breeding produced some excellent dogs. I personally think it was a good move...there are plenty of show lines to go around, why not outcross and bring in some new (better?) blood.

Excluding the past few months, he seemed to be doing a good job bringing folks together. I accidentally started a tiff on his board a while back about breeding, which was turned into a rescue vs. breeder thing, which was NEVER my intention, but he made it clear that nobody had preference on his board and that infighting wasn't good for the breed. Shut me up quickly enough. :| (Of course my opinions are still the same... :evil: )

I don't know what to think, but like I said, I'm not going to jump to conclusions. What must newcomers to the breed think? All of these pillars of the breed (right or not) crumbling one after the other...
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