West Coast Bully Breeds Club

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Postby Big_Ant » May 17th, 2007, 6:23 pm

:ninja: :popcorn2: :ninja:
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Postby msvette2u » May 17th, 2007, 6:25 pm


OT but I LOVE this icon. When I see it I think of Joyce... lol
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Postby Romanwild » May 17th, 2007, 9:27 pm

Like Deb said...Big picture people.

To say that those dogs are poor examples of Pit Bulls would be a compliment. But that's not the point. There money is green.

Infighting will kill this breed faster then bad confirmation.
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Postby Vanella » May 17th, 2007, 10:13 pm

Believe me I get that.....I know money is GREEN.......this is hypothetical, but do we take the money from Razors Edge and Elite Edge just because they are giving it? This is a VERY good discussion. Do you take the money that is directly from over breeding these dogs, because money is green??? or do you take a stand on your morals???? Very good food for thought...money can be spent on anything...but do you want THAT money...
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Postby DemoDick » May 17th, 2007, 11:16 pm

Very good food for thought...money can be spent on anything...but do you want THAT money...


My intitial reaction was "No way."

I still feel the same way.

Taking money from this organization gives them an out and helps to legitimize what they are doing. Their donation is tainted. It would send a much better message to the public and ultimately be more productive to take a different path. I would refuse their donation publicly and detail exactly why in an open letter posted wherever I could. I wouldn't be vicious or inflammatory, just matter of fact about it. I think that would ultimately educate more people than going to an event ever could.

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Postby mnp13 » May 17th, 2007, 11:50 pm

This discussion seems to have an interesting parallel to the justification for buying a dog from a BYB.

"But if I don't buy the dog, someone else will"

"But if I don't take the money, someone else will"

Where the money comes from does matter.
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Postby msvette2u » May 17th, 2007, 11:55 pm

It is a total conflict of interest.
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Postby Romanwild » May 18th, 2007, 8:08 am

We've got a couple different points of view going here...cool.

Following the logic that you shouldn't except money from byb'ers for fear of legitimizing or condoning them in some way, a rescue or other kind of org should screen individual donations as well. All checks that arrive should be background checked for their breeding practices or the "style" of pit bull that they have. Ridiculous.

Even if this group manages to start their own breed of "American bullys" they will still be pit bulls. Just like APBT, AMSTAFFS, STAFFIES, AB, ETC. We are all in the same boat when it comes to our rights to own this breed. From my understanding this money, in part will be used for educating and fighting BSL.

Before you can protect the standard you need to make sure their will be a standard. Mass is proposing a statewide ban and people within the breed are arguing over standard. Waste of energy IMO. Think they're having this argument in Ont?

Take the money and fight the good fight...even for the east westy British Bulldog wannabes.
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Postby mnp13 » May 18th, 2007, 9:52 am

On May 18 2007, 08:08, Romanwild wrote:Following the logic that you shouldn't except money from byb'ers for fear of legitimizing or condoning them in some way, a rescue or other kind of org should screen individual donations as well. All checks that arrive should be background checked for their breeding practices or the "style" of pit bull that they have. Ridiculous.

There is a difference between an individual and an organization.

Here's a good example:
John calls your rescue and offers $1000 to help you fund your free spay/neuter program. You accept.

PeTA calls your rescue and offers $1000 to help you fund your free spay/neuter program. Do you accept?

There is a chance that John is a member of PeTA, but he is donating as a private person and you're not going to do background checks on every person who offers money. But PeTA is an organized group that is in the public eye and stands for things. Taking their money says that you accept where that money came from. You know there is an ulterior motive from PeTA.

Now, if that private person is a known supporter of PeTA or other anti-dog group, I would also not accept their money.

You KNOW there is an ulterior motive from the Bully people. Once you take their money you are giving them an out. They now can breed all they want, because they "support rescue" isn't that one of the criteria that most people put in their "responsible breeder" list? That they are involved in rescue?

The standard isn't really the issue here. I'd say the same thing if a bandog breeder (mastiff/Pit Bull) group offered you money.

When your organization accepts money from another organization you affiliate yourself with them. You had better be comfortable with what that other group stands for.

Just curious, if Outkast, Purina or Red River wanted to sponsor this site, should we take their money? According to some people here, we should. We'd be using it for good, right? Who cares where it came from.
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Postby msvette2u » May 18th, 2007, 10:04 am

It's called condoning.
What is irking some folks, I think, is that Ellena went on a very vocal rant about these so called "American Bullies" and how horrible it was that they being bred, blahblahblah.
Then she turns around and looks the other way with her hand out for donations FROM them.

Condone:
Inflected Form(s): con·doned ; con·don·ing
Etymology: Latin condonare to absolve, from com- + donare to give -- more at DONATION
: to pardon or overlook voluntarily ; especially : to treat as if trivial, harmless, or of no importance <condone>


A rescue taking money from an org. such as this is for them to basically condone everything that org. stands for and IS.
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Postby msvette2u » May 18th, 2007, 10:13 am

BTW it is a common practice for 501 c3 orgs to REFUSE donations publicly as Demo Dick suggested, in order to take a stand against certain behaviors by potential donors, groups and the like.
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Postby a-bull » May 18th, 2007, 10:38 am

On May 18 2007, Romanwild wrote:We've got a couple different points of view going here...cool.

Following the logic that you shouldn't except money from byb'ers for fear of legitimizing or condoning them in some way, a rescue or other kind of org should screen individual donations as well. All checks that arrive should be background checked for their breeding practices or the "style" of pit bull that they have. Ridiculous.

Even if this group manages to start their own breed of "American bullys" they will still be pit bulls. Just like APBT, AMSTAFFS, STAFFIES, AB, ETC. We are all in the same boat when it comes to our rights to own this breed. From my understanding this money, in part will be used for educating and fighting BSL.

Before you can protect the standard you need to make sure their will be a standard. Mass is proposing a statewide ban and people within the breed are arguing over standard. Waste of energy IMO. Think they're having this argument in Ont?

Take the money and fight the good fight...even for the east westy British Bulldog wannabes.


Roman~For what it's worth, at the Hearings on Monday there was no division amongst the organizations that came to show support or testify. There were many different groups with varying philosophies, but all of them came together for one cause, and were cohesive and supportive of one another. Maybe people are arguing behind the scenes regarding breed standard, but there was none of that present on Monday.

Anyone ever see pictures of my "bluff," lol, and my "cur"? The Representatives did, and seemed surprised to learn that my family pets were considered "pitbulls" and would be effected by breed specific legislation---and yet I can post their pictures amongst my own dog peers (?) on a pitbull forum and get raked over the coals because they're a "bluff" and a "cur".

I agree with you that the division internally will be the demise of the breed. I can only imagine how unsuccessful we would have been on Monday if we had pitbull owners getting up and arguing with each other rather than supporting one another. It would have played right into the hands of those who are pushing the bsl.

So anyways, I may have gone a little off-topic here, but I wanted to give a first hand example in support of Roman's opinion earlier that the division amongst us will be our downfall. He is absolutely correct.
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Postby msvette2u » May 18th, 2007, 11:33 am

I might be totally off base here but "division internally" and accepting "blood money" and accepting/condoning what BYBs do are two entirely different things.
Everyone on here can agree that those bullies are NOT pit bulls. Sure they might "look" like the public's opinion of pit bulls. But accepting money from the organizations who breed and promote them is not the way to educate people.
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Postby a-bull » May 18th, 2007, 11:38 am

On May 18 2007, msvette2u wrote:I might be totally off base here but "division internally" and accepting "blood money" and accepting/condoning what BYBs do are two entirely different things.
Everyone on here can agree that those bullies are NOT pit bulls. Sure they might "look" like the public's opinion of pit bulls. But accepting money from the organizations who breed and promote them is not the way to educate people.


According to any breed specific legislation, those would be considered "pitbulls" and they'd be in the same boat as the rest of us . . .

However, I'll leave you all to your "internal" debate about "blood money." :wink:
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Postby mnp13 » May 18th, 2007, 12:08 pm

I'm all for going and trying to educate, but for me, the line is drawn at accepting money.
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 18th, 2007, 1:36 pm

I can see both sides. I agree, at times, money is money & maybe you should collect now what you will help clean up later.



BUT these people are trying to create their own breed. Would a poodle rescue attend a GSD event? I doubt it. Simple fact of the matter is, these are NOT pit bulls in any shape, form or fashion. They want to make their own breed so let them. Create your own breed, create your OWN rescues. Maybe if they are forced to clean up their OWN messes & create their own rescues it would give them more respectabilty & move them further to actually forming their own breed. I dunno. Personally I would NOT be able to attend their event as a rescue. There is nothing there but BYB's, I would not be able to keep my mouth shut.


Bare with me if my stance changes because I never really gave this much thought before & I find everyone's repsonses interesting & educational.
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Postby Ellena » May 18th, 2007, 5:01 pm

Oh Yvette..... you are getting caught up again in something that doesnt involve you... surprise surprise.


Since some of you have nothing better to to than to watch and "take notes" :wink: on what im doing maybe you should stop and ASK me if im accepting any money.


Hummmm what a good though eh?



Last October the same people contacted me saying that they were having a bully event for Halloween. They said they were donating the proceeds to PNWPBR. NOTHING came in the mail and NOTHING will at this event either.

This group can do whatever they want to make themselves look better, people can get nosey and overly opinionated and get their panties in a wad about it.... whatever. I know no money will come from this and that has NOTHING to do with why im attending.

The fun part though is people who are actually respectful... they would get this clarification from me early on. People like you Yvette, and Vanella and Devin who have nothing better to do and follow me (yay for my ego! :D ) dont get any explanation or clarfication, espically since they have decided to start a stupid vandetta over a stupid forum. So sad for them and I have better things to do than deal with their childish antics to spew drama and guesses on my practices.

You may all forget but just because IM the one on forums doesnt mean IM the only one who has a say or is involved with PNWPBR. Talk about my ego all you want Vanella... but everything PNWPBR does is a group effort and something we discuss. This has nothing to do with my ego, its how a non-profit works (something Yvette knows nothing about so its funny that she would bring up a 501(c)3).


Anyways, continue.


Those of you who have valid POV, thank you and I DO appreciate your views.

Those of you that are being childish and trying to run my rescue from afar because they hold a grudge and are bored.... shoo shoo and find someone else to bug.


Thanks! :greenWave:
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Postby Vanella » May 18th, 2007, 5:51 pm

lmfaoooo I'm going to spare shredding you verbally since it serves no purpose....

let me just post this in reply....

only the breeds on the WCBBA registry can compete in the conformation, weight pull and treadmill events. The breeds that can be registered for those events are: American bulldog, American Staffordshire terrier/American pit bull terrier, colored bull terrier, English bulldog, French bulldog, miniature bulldog, old English bulldog and Staffordshire bull terrier.

The $3 entry fees help pay for the event, and the proceeds from the raffle — $1 per ticket — is split between club operating costs and the Pacific Northwest Pit Bull Rescue.



A quote directly from the organization.....but let me guess...they don't know what their talking about either? :|


:greenWave: back atcha!!! :thbbbbt: (GOD I LOVE THESE EMOTICONS!!)
Last edited by Vanella on May 18th, 2007, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Devin » May 18th, 2007, 5:58 pm

On May 18 2007, Ellena wrote:Oh Yvette..... you are getting caught up again in something that doesnt involve you... surprise surprise.


Since some of you have nothing better to to than to watch and "take notes" :wink: on what im doing maybe you should stop and ASK me if im accepting any money.


Hummmm what a good though eh?



Last October the same people contacted me saying that they were having a bully event for Halloween. They said they were donating the proceeds to PNWPBR. NOTHING came in the mail and NOTHING will at this event either.

This group can do whatever they want to make themselves look better, people can get nosey and overly opinionated and get their panties in a wad about it.... whatever. I know no money will come from this and that has NOTHING to do with why im attending.

The fun part though is people who are actually respectful... they would get this clarification from me early on. People like you Yvette, and Vanella and Devin who have nothing better to do and follow me (yay for my ego! :D ) dont get any explanation or clarfication, espically since they have decided to start a stupid vandetta over a stupid forum. So sad for them and I have better things to do than deal with their childish antics to spew drama and guesses on my practices.

You may all forget but just because IM the one on forums doesnt mean IM the only one who has a say or is involved with PNWPBR. Talk about my ego all you want Vanella... but everything PNWPBR does is a group effort and something we discuss. This has nothing to do with my ego, its how a non-profit works (something Yvette knows nothing about so its funny that she would bring up a 501(c)3).


Anyways, continue.


Those of you who have valid POV, thank you and I DO appreciate your views.

Those of you that are being childish and trying to run my rescue from afar because they hold a grudge and are bored.... shoo shoo and find someone else to bug.


Thanks! :greenWave:


Ellena you want to turn everything into you. I have nothing against you I never did. I could careless about stupid forum drama this has nothing to do with that. I made this same post on my forum and didn't drag it onto other forums like you've done with MANY other things. Yet I get a pm from Jess on ucare saying:

Jesseca wrote:why don't you have the balls to post over here about the bully breeds club???? your board is unbelievable


This was of course after she had locked it and I couldn't respond to it anyways. So I took that as a request that she wanted me to post it on a forum where you would be more likely to read it. So that is the only reason why I even wasted my time on you. You see that as me following you around? LMAO oooook think what you want.

Ever think it might have something to do with the fact that I don't agree with many of the things you do in your rescue? You came onto my forum getting donations. I myself even donated to you. Yet you take it personally that we didn't like the way you mod on our forum and you don't update anybody on the forum about whats going on. These are dogs that they've donated their money to some of them aren't on other forums you've updated. Shows how little you think of the people that supported you.

How many dogs do you have at your house now? Aren't you only supposed to have 3 since you don't have a kennel license? Last I heard you had a few more dogs than that and still no kennel license. How responsible is that? You preach about educating people maybe you should start with yourself. How would it look if you did get reported? More negative headlines that's just what this breed needs.
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Postby Noriko525 » May 18th, 2007, 6:22 pm

On May 18 2007, 10:38 AM, a-bull wrote:
On May 18 2007, msvette2u wrote:I might be totally off base here but "division internally" and accepting "blood money" and accepting/condoning what BYBs do are two entirely different things.
Everyone on here can agree that those bullies are NOT pit bulls. Sure they might "look" like the public's opinion of pit bulls. But accepting money from the organizations who breed and promote them is not the way to educate people.


According to any breed specific legislation, those would be considered "pitbulls" and they'd be in the same boat as the rest of us . . .

However, I'll leave you all to your "internal" debate about "blood money." :wink:


I'm with ya on that A-bull.

I understand these dogs are NOT PIT BULLS but people need to keep in mind that they 'aren't pit bulls' only to Pit Bull people! If my mom were to see one of those american bullies, she'd scream Pit Bull... perhaps "big fat pit bull" but it'd be a Pit bull to her nonetheless... and that would still be DESPITE my attempts to educate her on the difference. The general public does not differentiate the way Pit Bull people do.


Following the logic that you shouldn't except money from byb'ers for fear of legitimizing or condoning them in some way, a rescue or other kind of org should screen individual donations as well. All checks that arrive should be background checked for their breeding practices or the "style" of pit bull that they have. Ridiculous.

Even if this group manages to start their own breed of "American bullys" they will still be pit bulls. Just like APBT, AMSTAFFS, STAFFIES, AB, ETC. We are all in the same boat when it comes to our rights to own this breed. From my understanding this money, in part will be used for educating and fighting BSL.

Before you can protect the standard you need to make sure their will be a standard. Mass is proposing a statewide ban and people within the breed are arguing over standard. Waste of energy IMO. Think they're having this argument in Ont?

Take the money and fight the good fight...even for the east westy British Bulldog wannabes.


I agree.

So, if I go to this event because I wanna check it out...and see Ellena's booth... does that make me a supporter of American Bullies because I showed up to there event?
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