On March 07 2007, 14:25, brooksybrooks1 wrote:maybe it would help if you went back and read the other thread, as this is obviously a continuation of it. i think it's labeled "brag"
and not to rant, but you have no idea what it takes to train my dog and how advanced/not advanced he is.
Bitework is very exciting for the handler and the dog. It's also dangerous. It's a dog biting someone. That's why I agree with Ant. Logic, to me, dictates having a dog that is obscenely obedient prior to introduction to bitework. It's a safety thing.
Inhibition is something you want in a dog that does bitework. That way the "handler" can control the dog that much more.
As far as inhibiting drive....not sure about that. I guess it would depend on what someones interpretation of drive is.
-italics addedLooking to the handler for reward is not the pinnacle of marker training. For instance bitework in it's self would be the reward. With marker training you reward the behavior you want to reinforce. If you want the dog to look at you that's what you reward. If you want him to stay focused on the decoy then that's what you reward.
I know of no one who does bitework who trains this way. I've trained at quite a few clubs in multiple states and been to PP and sport trials. It is unheard of to put "obscene obedience" on a dog before bitework, as you will likely end up with anemic performance.
And bitework is NOT a "dog biting someone", especially in the beginning. It is a dog biting equipment with numerous visual and auditory cues, which is very different.
Inhibition is the worst thing to teach a bitework dog, especially one that you may count on to protect you. Inhibition results in hesitation and conflict within the dog. What you're talking about is control, which is not the same thing, and should not be taught the same way.
There's no debate. Drive is the dog's desire to perform a given behavior. That's pretty much universally accepted.
Besides, biting is a self-rewarding behavior (for a bite trained dog it is the self-rewarding behavior), so marking it would be redundant anyway.
So a dog with drive can have too much obedience and inhibition?
On March 08 2007, 12:02 AM, Romanwild wrote:I know of no one who does bitework who trains this way. I've trained at quite a few clubs in multiple states and been to PP and sport trials. It is unheard of to put "obscene obedience" on a dog before bitework, as you will likely end up with anemic performance.
I haven't trained in bitework but when I started trying to learn about it I never heard of anyone starting with bitework. I was told several times that that was the last thing to teach a dog. Obviously like everything else in the world of training there is more then one way that works and even more opinions.
Ultimately it is a dog biting someone. That's what you're teaching. I'm always hearing about real world scenarios and hidden sleeves, etc. It's the teaching of a dog to bite the bad guy!
he minds me like a saint and is probably gonna get his bh pretty soon here,
Inhibition is the worst thing to teach a bitework dog, especially one that you may count on to protect you. Inhibition results in hesitation and conflict within the dog. What you're talking about is control, which is not the same thing, and should not be taught the same way
Control is obedience! What else could it be? If you've trained your dog to bite on command then he won't bite till you tell him to. That's a good thing.
On 03/08/2007 7:53 AM, GregMK9 wrote:Here are some pics of a bark and hold
On 03/08/2007 9:39 AM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:anthony: if you have never trained bite work then why do you pose your whole response as though you are an authority on it? you have to have input from several different types of training, watched it, read about it, etc before you can talk like this. maybe your comments would have resulted in less of an uproar if you would have kept in mind that these should be questions, i feel like greg and demodick and others have done a pretty good job of explaining things to you, people who have a lot of authority, and yet you still act like with your zero experience your opinion weighs just as heavily if not more than theirs.
i'm even more annoyed that i'm getting attacked by someone who has little to no experience in it and is in no position to be telling people who have experience how to do it.
On 03/08/2007 9:49 AM, Nelson wrote:Does this mean that you must go strictly: "pure positive", bitework first, no obedience, etc???? Of course not. All trainers have their strengths and weaknesses, talent, experience and knowledge. This will eventually determine what type of training they'll choose.
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