Breed a litter and then kill half the pups???

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Postby SisMorphine » February 3rd, 2006, 9:14 am

Kangas Mommy wrote: What if these breeders have a child and god forbid there is something wrong and the child is less then perfect will that child be culled? :|

After working as a nanny for more years that I can count I'll tell you that there are PLENTY of kids out there who should have been. Damn kids. :wink2:
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby Maryellen » February 3rd, 2006, 9:27 am

i still think that to cull because of why this breeder wants to is wrong.period.. there are plenty of people that would buy her pet quality pups.. to cull for health/temperment is fine, but to cull because they only want show pups? that is wrong..

and yes, you can get a bombproof dog from a shelter, and one with a good pedigree. sure, you have to weed out the bad ones, but the good ones ARE there...
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Postby Kangas Mommy » February 3rd, 2006, 11:27 am

lol I am not too fond of children either. But anyway my dogs are like my kids and i love them so much. I revolve my world around them. One is missing a hind leg and another is in a diaper. And we deal. I will love them no matter what. I am glad they were not culled and so are they :)
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Postby Pitcrew » February 5th, 2006, 10:24 pm

I have read 5 pages on this topic now... and every time I was compelled to post, Michelle has interjected with exactly what I would say, if not better.
I can look at this topic from every angle...

I do believe in culling... but...

My 6 year old male Luke (in my avitar) was from a very good reputable responsible breeder. She produces beautiful dogs, but genes fall where they may, and he does not have great (or even good) show ring conformation. He is of a color "not to be encouraged" in his breed standard. He is too tall. He is absolutely sweet and loving and has a wonderfull temperment. But for a working dog, or even MY opinion of a 'perfect' temperment he is "soft". But I love him. He is a great breed embassador, he is a great working dog in spite of himself, and his breeder is very proud of him. He could have been culled for many reasons. I am happy to have him. I am a pet home.

I have a 1 year old female, from a breeder, I selected very specifically for what I wanted, conformationally, and as a working dog. Her breeder does cull. I couldnt have gotten a more perfect dog. (I know I could have, rescue or whatever, but I was very happy with my decision) She may be the best working dog I have ever had. I am a working/show home.

And I have a 1 year old female rescue. Who came at a time when I had, or needed, no expectations... and was willing to accept a challenge, and a risk (to my heart). I have learned alot from her. I am a rescue home.

Her conformation is horendous, roached back, hare feet, tilted pelvis, crooked tail, double hare-lip, cleft-pallette.... etc. ANY breeder would cull for most of these problems at birth. Some of these defects would cause them to die on their own before weaning, or have many health problems and possibly require surgery. This pup apparently survived on her own, without assistance, was found on the streets, made it to a shelter, was set to put down, because her appearance made her unadoptable. Her personality saved her, and she went to a rescue, several foster homes... and after starting in southern california, wound up more traveled than ME.
Her temperment is very sweet and loving, but her EXTREMELY high energy level (and I KNOW high energy) and lack of early training and self control made it very stressfull for even her rescuers to be patient with her. She also had (HAD) severe restraint/fear/aggression issues. BUT, she is a wonderful dog, constantly teaching me patience and improving MY versatility with training, and really a sweet, lovable dog. The same as many dogs who are (rightfully) destroyed for health, temperment, or homeless/rescue, unadoptable reasons. But I love her and it would be a shame to lose her at a young age because of related health problems, but it would have been worth having her. Right now she is perfectly healthy, and a real pip.

Saying all of this... I DO believe in culling. I do not breed.
I do believe in the right to choose, and wheather dogs or people, there are different reasons for any CHOICE. Reasons to spare, reasons to cull, and people need to make their own choice. I do believe in abortion. I am also adopted. "There but for the grace of god go I"... and my dogs...
There will never be one right answer. Do not force your opinions onto others, many choices look different from someone elses perspective.

I can support responsible breeders AND rescue.
Thank you for your opinions... I dont agree with all... but none are wrong.

Nice calm discussion, debate, and education.
"Pedigree indicates what the animal should be;
Conformation indicates what the animal appears to be;
But, Performance indicates what the animal actually is."
- author unknown
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Postby Romanwild » February 6th, 2006, 9:14 am

Excellent post Lisa! :thumbsup:
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Postby mnp13 » February 6th, 2006, 10:38 am

Very very well said Lisa.
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Postby SisMorphine » February 6th, 2006, 11:58 am

Agreed. Very well said. Thank you.
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
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Postby valliesong » February 14th, 2006, 12:19 am

i can't really comment on the breeding side of things (or rather, i don't feel like it), but i am involved in a "culling" situation at work quite frequently.

i am working mostly with cats right now, and during kitten season, we even cull the cute little kittens. less desirable colors such as black and grey, or kittens that are shy, often get euthanized before even having a chance at adoption because we are so full.

the same goes for adult animals. a cat that is shy and hides in the back of the cage will certainly be euthanized if the shelter is full. a ten year old cat has to have a stellar temperament to go up for adoption.

i am sure things are similar in the dog facility.

of course i hate being involved in it, but the shelter can only house so many animals. we only have so many foster parents. there is only so much you can do.
Val

Ethical Bull Breed Rescue & Referral - http://www.ebbrr.org
One by One Cat Rescue - http://1by1catrescue.org
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Postby spitbull » February 15th, 2006, 8:18 pm

The culling of puppies is a sad but needed fact of dog developement.All "purebred" dog were developed and not all the pups would be what the breeder was trying to achieve.Our beloved "pits" were a result of the crossing of 2 distinct and different breeds and probabaly several other breeds mixed in as well.So in the pursuit of a certain "type" many pups would not fall into the desired look,size.colour,ect.
That said today there is little need of this,unless of course there is a flaw that would hamper a dogs ability to grow up and enjoy life.I do not believe in culling, except for the extreme case.To me a dog that doesn't fit the breed standard should be "fixed",I hate that term cause really I dont believe they are broken,LOL .... to prevent it from breeding and sold only as a pet.
This is the biggest issue finding the proper home,far to many breeders only see the $$$ and care not where the dog goes.Our breed has been ruined as a result of this.20 or 30 years ago you would NEVER find a people agressive PIT, Today they are everywhere.Years ago a dog that showed any signs of people aggression would have been "culled".
So culling is an unfortunate but nesasary fact of breeding,not because the dog doesnt fit the standard but when it come to temperment it must be done.................Whether we like it or not.....
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Postby Garlic Gal » February 16th, 2006, 2:14 am

Very well said Lisa.

Of my two rescues, Coco has long legs too and a weak temperment. I had both him and Betty fixed shortly after attaining them. I believe in breeding for good temperment and form. But I would not have the dogs I love so dearly if someone had had them culled. We do not know who bred Coco, he was dumped anonymously at a shelter as a pup, then they adopted him out. This is one way a breeder could disassociate themselves from unwanted pups without killing them.

But I can't say that I like this solution to the problem of pups that don't make the grade. So many unwanted dogs die in shelters every day. So many dogs go to irrisponcible owners. We do what we can. We try to be a force of what is good and hopefully effect those around us for the better.

Nancy :idea1:
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