Elmo and Tully

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby mnp13 » February 12th, 2006, 1:59 pm

Some of you may know of Elmo and Tully, two Staffordshire Bull Terriers owned by Sarah.

I was just told that both dogs were seriously injured when they got into Sarah's neighbor's yard. One of the dogs (Sarah's or the neighbors) made a hole in the fence and all four dogs ended up next door. Tully and Elmo got the worst of the encounter.

Sarah is the last person I would ever consider to be irresponsible, so this just goes to show that you can never be to careful!!!

Please send positive thoughts and prayers to Sarah, Tully and Elmo!
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Postby GreddyGirl » February 12th, 2006, 3:13 pm

Her poor poor dogs! The pics she posted are disturbring :(
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Postby turtle » February 12th, 2006, 3:55 pm

Yes, but what is more disturbing to me is that she could have prevented this whole thing!

She knew for some time that fence was not safe and that the dogs were breaking thru it on both sides. She could have put a hot wire on it while she made plans to re-build it. But no, she left both her dogs outside and did not even check on them for several minutes after she heard the screaming. Poor Elmo and Tully got quite torn up and the dogs must have been fighting for some time.

I am surprised she is not held to task for being a bit irresponsible over this, if it had been a new member they would have been flamed for letting their dogs break into the neighbor's yard and get in a fight. She really should offer to pay the neighbor's dog's vet bills too since her dogs were in their yard. If the neighbor's dogs had been in her yard, she would have expected them to pay her vet bills. Sort of a double standard there, eh?

But I am sorry Tully and Elmo were hurt. I wish they had not been, it was a bad incident all the way around...
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Postby mnp13 » February 12th, 2006, 4:21 pm

I would expect her to pay the vet bills of the neighbor's dog, but I didn't know that the fence problem was a known issue. Like I said, I got the info second hand and I haven't seen any of the ensueing discussion where the initial post was made.
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Postby Patch O' Pits » February 12th, 2006, 4:25 pm

Thank God the dogs are healing fine. Hopefully, Elmo's leg won't be a bigger issue as she is thinking there may be muscle damage
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 12th, 2006, 4:57 pm

Oh no!!!! Yes, the fence has been an issue for some time now but last I read she had patched it & it seemed secure. I can't see the board at all anymore so I don't know what has happened with the situation lately. This is terrible. Poor Elmo is getting up there.
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Postby Romanwild » February 12th, 2006, 5:31 pm

Talk about irresponsible.

I walk two pit bulls at the same time! I realize the chance I'm taking but there is only so much time in the day to walk a dog. :| I hope that any situation that pops up will be one I can handle and not end up in the paper with.

As far as fences go, even if I had one I would probably stand in the window and watch them the whole time! :lol3:
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 12th, 2006, 5:48 pm

As far as fences go, even if I had one I would probably stand in the window and watch them the whole time!


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Postby turtle » February 12th, 2006, 6:52 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:
As far as fences go, even if I had one I would probably stand in the window and watch them the whole time!


I DO!


I do too! And I even tie mine up to her tree in the front yard even though my front yard (and back yard) are all fenced.
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Postby Maryellen » February 12th, 2006, 8:08 pm

that is sad. however, gf is right.. she should have taken better care of the fence, and been out with the dogs..
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Postby mnp13 » February 12th, 2006, 8:14 pm

I can't in good conscience fault the fence thing. Ruby can jump the 6 foot solid fence in my yard, and has a few times. Of course, she can also jump the 4 foot chain link, but she's afraid of chain link.

anyway...

I have been guilty of letting her out and not watching every second. There is a part of the yard that you can't see from the house, and I'm used to her going over there.
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Postby Sarah » February 12th, 2006, 10:54 pm

GF- I told you on PBF that if you wanted to discuss it, you could start another thread. I merely didn't want to get sidetracked into an argument in a thread I started about my poor, hurt dogs. Real gutsy of you, coming to criticize me on a board which I don't belong to. (now I do.)

I'm not going to claim that I didn't make mistakes, because obviously I did. I never said I didn't. I've never said that I was perfect, and that everything I do is the right thing to do, all the freakin time. I don't sit around and rag people on message boards because they made a mistake. It's not my way.

I thought the fence would hold!! The neighbor's dogs got into my yard once. No fight ensued, though my dogs were out, there was a bunch of barking, I got my dogs in, the neighbors got theirs back. That is the only time previous that the fence was breached. The neighbor's patched their side, and build a barrier to keep their dogs away from the fence. I patched my side. There had been no fence fighting since then, nothing happening at all to make me think things were continuing to escalate.

Yes, I let my dogs in the yard unobserved. (not right now) Millions of people do. Sorry you think that's irresponsible. Like millions of other people, I don't see any problem with the dogs being in a fenced yard on their own. I have a dog door, and when I'm home, they have free access (not right now). Unlike millions of people, I don't shut my dogs out, they always can come back in, and they aren't out there when I'm not home, they're shut in the house. I can't think of anyone I know in person that feels that they must have their eyes on their dogs constantly when the dog is behind a 6' privacy fence. Just you few people on the internet, and I have no idea what you really do with your dogs in person.

I didn't just sit here and listen to dogs screaming, and ignore it. I heard what sounded like an angry small dog barking. It didn't sound like my dog. It didn't sound like it was anywhere near my house, it sounded like it was down the block. I didn't think I could do anything about it. I finally went to check because it was weird, and I hadn't seen Elmo or Tully in a few minutes. (they're rarely gone for that long) I didn't know until I peeked through the cracks of the fence that it was my dog, and the noise was her shrieking! Elmo never made a sound, all the noise I heard was Tully. A good part of the damage to Tully's throat happened after I'd seen what was going on, while I was trying to get over there. I couldn't push down the fence, I tried. I'm not tall enough to climb it. It was at least five minutes that I spent trying to get over there, in which Tully's airway was being cut off.

I wish I'd gone out sooner, but I wasn't deliberately ignoring my dogs, and it wasn't a vast amount of time. Dogs can do an incredible amount of damage in a short time. I was in time to prevent any damage from being done to Tully's trachea. All the threat to her breathing was from swelling.

I don't think that not offering to pay Ruby's (the pit mix that did the damage, not your dog, Michelle!) vet bill makes me a bad person. Offering to pay would make me a more noble person, but I've never claimed to be the most noble person in the world. I never refused to pay, either. In fact, I'll offer right now, how about that? No problem, she doesn't have a vet bill!

You can think badly of me over that if you want, but my neighbors have no problems with any of my actions, and they are the ones who's opinion counts. They were grateful that I asked how Ruby was (which would have been a nice opening for them to ask for payment for her vet bills, had they wanted to do so), and sorry to see how chewed up my dogs are. They were very understanding about my damaging their gate when I forced my way through it, and we are on perfectly good terms. We will build a new fence together as soon as we can. We are all sad that this happened, and kicking ourselves that we didn't recognize the possibility, but we all know that it was a case of dogs acting like dogs, and not something that is worth acting like bratty kids over. We are all mature adults, and will continue to act like it!

How about that, neighbors getting together and resolving issues like mature adults, without resorting to threats and legal action? Imagine the possibilities!

If someone else's dogs broke in, and my dogs nearly killed them (unlikely to happen, my dogs aren't very territorial), I sure wouldn't ask the owner of the other dogs to pay for the treatment of whatever injuries my dogs had. Yes, I'd have the legal right. But I'd feel bad that my dogs did such damage, and would feel that the owner had suffered enough. So no, I don't feel like a hypocrite in not offering to pay for Ruby's (non-existent) vet bills. I suspect that is how my neighbors feel. They like my dogs, and they know that Ruby can be aggressive.

Anyway, I know I was obviously wrong to trust that fence, and I whole-heartedly wish I'd gone out there a few minutes earlier. These are mistakes I made. I suppose you've never made mistakes, and bully for you, but I'm not that perfect. I'm paying for it, too, $1200 worth. Plus the incredible mental torture of watching my dog almost killed, the thorns I picked up in my feet while running over dead blackberry vines trying to get through the fence, the bruises on my legs and hands from forcing my way through the gate, the effect of the stress and physical activity on my already weakened lungs (nasty chest cold, most of which turn into bronchitis for me) The ongoing trauma of watching my beloved dogs in pain, which far eclipses the minor physical pains I've suffered myself. At least I avoided the embarassment factor of driving to the vets in my nightgown, which I would have done if Tully hadn't started to revive when I picked her up. (I was extremely worried about the airway, and shock)

Bigger people than you offered me money for the care of my dogs. Which was a really kind and generous offer, but I told them to give the money to someone who needed it more desperately, and deserved it more. I can pay for this care, though not easily, and I could have avoided the situation if I had done things differently.

But, that doesn't give you the right to judge me.

****

For anyone who actually cares about the dogs and not one-upping people on an internet forum... if you want to see the damage done, there's a page, here:
http://elmothesbt.homestead.com/lostfight.html

It has the pictures I took. They are fairly gruesome, but not as gruesome as they looked before treatment! I didn't have time to take pictures of the open wounds, of course, I had to get them to the vet immediately.
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Postby mnp13 » February 12th, 2006, 11:08 pm

I can't imagine.....

I'm glad they are on the mend and that the neighbor's dog is ok as well.
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Postby Romanwild » February 12th, 2006, 11:22 pm

Very sorry about what happend to your dogs! By the looks of the pics it must have been a doozy of fight! I hope they heal soon.

You're right that no one is perfect. We all know what to do but sometimes we let our guard down or have a lapse in judgement or the uncontrollable happens. :|

Reading your account of events it sounds like one of those"shit happens" moments. I hope you don't beat yourself up too much!
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Postby cheekymunkee » February 12th, 2006, 11:36 pm

Oh my those injuries look soo painful. Poor babies & poor you for having to witness it. I know I will never get over the guilt I felt when Munkee grabbed Justice & tried to kill her. I remember it every time I look at her.

I do watch my dogs when they are outside, I have a chain link fence & dogs on both sides of me. My dogs have never tried to leave their yard & my neighbors dogs stay in theirs. They are used to each other & have never fence fought, they do run the fence lines but that is the extent of it. I also watch them like a hawk because I have had dog stolen from a back yard that was fenced in with a privacy fence. I'm nost always outside WITH them but the back of my house is windowed & I can see the enitire back yard from any of them.

I'm sorry this happened to you & I hope Elmo's leg will heal & be able to compete once again.
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Postby panda » February 13th, 2006, 12:37 am

Sarah,

I too am praying for both Tully & Elmo's recovery.
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Postby DemoDick » February 13th, 2006, 12:43 am

Sorry to hear about what happened. The most important thing is that everything is treatable.

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Postby CinderDee » February 13th, 2006, 2:42 am

I'm really sorry this happened to you, Sarah, but so happy that Elmo & Tully are going to be ok.
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Postby turtle » February 13th, 2006, 2:53 am

Look, Sarah, all I have to go on is what you posted. You did say you heard a dog screaming for several minutes before you checked to see what it was.

And a month ago, you said your fence was really rotten and needed to be replaced, that patching it could only do so much, and would not make it safe. Unless the fence was replaced, it was only a matter of time before a fight happened.

You also posted that you would not offer to pay the neighbor's dog's vet bills. I'm sorry but that is not being a responsible dog owner to not offer to pay the vet bills when your dogs are in the neighbor's yard fighting.

So that's what I had read. I am genuinely sorry the dogs got hurt. I did not post to make waves nor to pick a fight, I just felt it was not handled very well as far as the other dog's vet bills (which are now non existent) and the fence repairs.
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Postby Sarah » February 13th, 2006, 4:06 am

I didn't say I heard screaming. I said I heard noises. Noises which sounded like somebody's little dog objecting to something. I couldn't decide whether it sounded like the little dog was caught on something, or just mad about something, but either way, I didn't think I could do anything.

And yes, I said the fence needed to be replaced, but that didn't mean I thought it was going to give way immediately! Especially once the fence fighting thing was resolved. My concern was that those dogs hitting it were going to break it, and once they weren't doing that, I thought we had another few months. If you'd remember, my concern with the fence the whole time was that my neighbor's dogs were charging it, and my original concern was how to get the neighbor's to build a barrier to stop their dogs from doing so. Which they did.

And I said this in my very long post, but I'll say it again, as I feel pretty strongly about this. The noble thing to do would have been to offer to pay their vet bills. Not making that offer was not noble, but it doesn't make me irresponsible. It makes me human. Refusing to pay the vet bills might have been irresponsible, but I never did that, I just said I wouldn't offer. Only you seem to think that's somehow awful. When I stated this on another (all-breed) dog board, everyone thought it was perfectly reasonable that I wouldn't make the offer. One person stands by the belief that my neighbors should have to pay part of my vet bills, which of course is not something I would ask.

If my dogs were the ones starting the fights, maybe I'd feel differently. But they aren't. The culprit (as my neighbors well know), is their GWP, Deuce. In fact, when I was talking to my neighbors today, she told me that he joked last night, "Maybe we could give Deuce to Sarah as recompense".

I wish I'd never trusted that fence. I wish I'd gone out to check as soon as I heard unfamiliar dog noises. I wish I made enough money to throw money around everytime something goes wrong. But I don't always get what I wish for. So, I make do with what happened, learn from my mistakes, and keep good relations with the people I deal with, so they don't expect me to buy them off. It's working for me so far.
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