Introducing RAW meat and bones

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby Knomad » September 8th, 2006, 3:06 pm

Im not happy with the foods you can buy here in Argentina, Eukanuba and brands liek this dominate the market and the better kibbles just arent available here.

Im going to satrt weaning the dogs onto a mix of kibble and RAW to make sure they get the right nutrients and balance in their food.

My main concern is Chicken Necks and chicken bones. The pups are now six months, have their adult teeeth and can chew very well indeed. Can anyone tell me about feeding RAW Chicken Necks to pups?

My concern is of course choking. Everything ive read says its fine because the bones arent cooked. Does anyone have any first hand experience of BARF feeding and in particular chicken necks and other bones to pups around 6 months.

Thanks.
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Postby mnp13 » September 8th, 2006, 3:09 pm

My dogs are about 5 years old, but I give them chicken very frequently with no problems.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 8th, 2006, 3:11 pm

Several of us here feed RAW - I personally prefer prey-model to BARF, but to each their own! :wink:
The best rule of thumb I've heard is to only feed things bigger than their heads. Obviously that's not always practical, but I would definitely not just feed a neck or something small like that. Feed a whole chicken or half chicken. Also, I know some people on here do a mix of kibble/raw, but be cautious with that as they digest at different rates. So if you're hellbent on doing the mix, feed kibble for breakfast and raw for dinner, or something along those lines. But I think you should just bite the bone and jump in full-force! :wink:
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Postby cheekymunkee » September 8th, 2006, 3:12 pm

I feed raw and have had no problems with chicken bones with my dogs. If you are worried about choking you can break up the bones with a hammer before feeding them. You can chop the necks up with a knife before you feed them if it makes you feel safer also. The chicken necks I get here in the States have very little meat on them so I don't buy them. I had a box given to me once but for as little meat as there was on them, I'd rather spend a little more & get legs & thighs. Just hand them to your dogs or put them in their bowls & keep an eye on them until you are sure they can handle them with no choking. You don't want to feed raw and kibble in the same meal though, it could cause stomach upset. Good luck!! Your dogs are going to LOVE you for it!
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Postby Magnolia618 » September 8th, 2006, 5:59 pm

neck bones are actually very soft. I really wouldnt worry about them. Hammers work too!
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » September 8th, 2006, 9:54 pm

It's not the hardnes/softness of the neck bones that is troubling, it's the size - many dogs just inhale them and there's choking potential with that. You want bones that are big enough to encourage them to "chew."
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Postby Magnolia618 » September 9th, 2006, 8:33 am

But they are also very small. Think about some of the dog treats out there :| I've never had a problem with chicken necks and I've given them to at least 8 different dogs.

If you are that worried about them choking, just hold the end of the neck so they learn.
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Postby Knomad » September 9th, 2006, 11:02 am

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess I will have to try and see, maybe ill hold it and watch them closely to see how they respond to the neck, if they chew it up ill be more calm I guess.

I suppose dogs eat these things naturally so really there shouldnt be a problem I guess.

The reason im considering a mix because despite my concerns about the kibble, it does contain certain things in balance, Omega Oils, vitamis etc that maybe I couldnt balance myself so well doing the RAW diet.

Im not against a full raw diet im just worried I wont get the right balance of vitamins, or leave them a little short of something.

I was planning to breakfast them on Kibble and then give them raw for lunch and dinner and they are three feed dogs. That way they get a bit of everything.

Maybe once I understand RAW better and am more confident with balancing everything I will drop the kibble and go all RAW.
The kibble I use doesnt have chemicals and bad things in it, all natural preservatives and no colouring or flavouring added, so its not harmful. I just dont like the lack of better meat sources than Chicken Meal and id rather be sure they get a nice rich diet.
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Postby mnp13 » September 9th, 2006, 12:26 pm

Just curious - why do you feed three times a day?
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Postby Knomad » September 9th, 2006, 9:11 pm

To give them a good energy level at key times in the day really. We live right beside the park and I take them to play frisbee and run two or three times a day.....

We give them the same amount, maybe a little more, but divided into morning noon and dinner. In all honesty sometimes they eat four or five times a day i have got used to seeing when they are hungry and feeding them when I feel they need to recover some energy.
Normally I would not do this, but because of the excersice and regular running I feel its fair to let them eat to keep their energy up. I know after training I love to eat and recover the stamina so for them I so the same basically.

Theres no worry about fatness as in one session in the park they will run back and forth chasing the ball, or frisbee for an hour or more and more than work off any little excess they have in diet.

If theres a downside to this its that they are now so fit after three months of this they are like little "super dogs". Its shocking really, you can stand for an hour and half lobbing a frisbee or bouncing ball as far across the park as you can heave it, they will belt after it full pelt and return with it...over..and over...and over....and over.....and well you get it.

They play with some of their other regular play mates..adult dogs, and run all of them into the ground in 20 minutes flat.

Not really sure how to tire them any more so I guess keeping their energy up worked wonders :D
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Postby HappyPuppy » October 5th, 2006, 6:53 pm

. Also, I know some people on here do a mix of kibble/raw, but be cautious with that as they digest at different rates.
- If this does NOT say "pitbullmamaliz wrote" - at the beginning please tell me what I did wrong?!?!

My husband and I were debating this the other day. [I'm SLOWLY building up to at least partial raw and he thinks it's all foo-foo. Biggest concern is freezer space as mine is FULL. I must have starved in a past life or something!?!)] Anyway, how does this "digest at different rates" concept make sense? I remember one of the secrets of backpacking were to eat peanuts for long lasting break-down energy and chocolate and raisins for quicker-digesting faster energy. How is this concept different for dogs?

Another question for those of you who feed only ONCE a day - I was reading that metabolisms are metabolisms and that more meals per day are better than fewer. Since we work at home (that is nice!), I feed smaller amounts THREE times a day. I cannot get my head around the benefit(s) of just once a day.
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Postby HappyPuppy » October 5th, 2006, 6:56 pm

Hey - if my post came out like statements, they are questions. :D I've been practicing intermittently with raw and am really interested i making it more regular. My concern, too, was providing enough balance nutrition.
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Postby bouvierz » October 5th, 2006, 9:16 pm

I switched my dogs to raw a little over a month ago. Any way I feed lots of chicken. I go to Aldi's and buy chicken Quarters, I also go to a butchers and but chicken backs, turkey necks, chicken and turkey organs. I also make veggie slop which my dogs love (I mix ground turkey in it) I tried to feed kibble in the morning and raw in the evening but my Mastiff vomitted and had an upset tummy for days so now I feed only raw. I have not introduced pork and only a little beef as of yet. The only propblem I have is my Bouvier will not eat any of her meat if it is not frozen????? She is an odd ball. :|
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 5th, 2006, 9:25 pm

I don't even have a freezer other than the one above my fridge. I jsut buy whatever is on sale for them while I shop for my food. I'll keep a 10 pound bag of chicken in the fridge, extra cartons of eggs, yogurt & cottage cheese. I shop almost weekly so the extra doesn't take up that much room. Your husband won't think it's foofoo when he sees that he doesn't have to depoop the yard anymore. :wink:
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Postby mnp13 » October 5th, 2006, 11:27 pm

My dogs still poop just like always. It's smalller and doesn't smell, but it still looks like poop and I still have to clean up the yard.
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 5th, 2006, 11:47 pm

Hmmm, that's weird. I haven't had to clean poop in a loooong time. It looks like poop at first but after a day or two it's gone.
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Postby SisMorphine » October 6th, 2006, 8:14 am

On October 05 2006, 6:53 PM, HappyPuppy wrote:
. Also, I know some people on here do a mix of kibble/raw, but be cautious with that as they digest at different rates.
- If this does NOT say "pitbullmamaliz wrote" - at the beginning please tell me what I did wrong?!?!

My husband and I were debating this the other day. [I'm SLOWLY building up to at least partial raw and he thinks it's all foo-foo. Biggest concern is freezer space as mine is FULL. I must have starved in a past life or something!?!)] Anyway, how does this "digest at different rates" concept make sense? I remember one of the secrets of backpacking were to eat peanuts for long lasting break-down energy and chocolate and raisins for quicker-digesting faster energy. How is this concept different for dogs?

Another question for those of you who feed only ONCE a day - I was reading that metabolisms are metabolisms and that more meals per day are better than fewer. Since we work at home (that is nice!), I feed smaller amounts THREE times a day. I cannot get my head around the benefit(s) of just once a day.

Mike eats once a day, at night, because he is insanely food driven so it makes it easier to train and work with him during the day. Wally usually eats twice because he a lazy old retired man, and on a medical level I find that multiple meals is better and safer because you are feeding them less food at one time thus making them less likely to bloat. I know that bloat isn't a huge issue with pit bulls, but with Greyhounds and other deep chested breeds, it's a big thing that definitely makes me nervous.
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Postby SisMorphine » October 6th, 2006, 8:16 am

On October 05 2006, 11:47 PM, cheekymunkee wrote:Hmmm, that's weird. I haven't had to clean poop in a loooong time. It looks like poop at first but after a day or two it's gone.

Same here. By the end of the day it's usually already white and crumbled.


Also a note on feeding necks: it seems to be the main thing that people tell you to get to start your dogs off with, but I'm not a fan. Everytime Wally has a turkey neck he ends up vomiting it back up, or vomiting bile and bone the next morning, so I don't feed them. I stick with chicken quarters and chicken backs as my main staple.
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