Collar comfort *update*

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby mnp13 » July 25th, 2006, 9:52 pm

The about turn is all about timing, and it is not always easy to do. If you can get someone to spot you, or even better if you can have someone video tape you, you'll see your mistakes and be able to correct them.
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Postby anissa » July 25th, 2006, 10:11 pm

That Sense-ible harness looks interesting. I think I'll order a couple and see how they work. Jaida has very sensitive skin under her neck, so this looks like a comfortable alternative to the flat collar.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 7:34 am

I like the looks of the sensible harness too. I may have to add it to my collection. I have a sporne harness from the Doberman I had. It was big for Rocky but I tried it last night and it fits better now that he is bigger. but I lost the package so Im not sure I have it on right.
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Postby rockermom » July 26th, 2006, 11:20 am

soozan wrote:I use the Sense-ible harness. It's the best I've found. I've tried the Gentle Leader, the Sporn, a traditional harness, a prong collar. Everything else hasn't work. With the Sense-ible harness, this gives a shot at training Butch not to pull.

http://www.puplife.com/dogsupplies/sense.html


I have similar harnes Gentle Leader CHEST harness. It too the leash hooks up on the chest. However It constantly needs to be adjusted and does not fit the best on a dog with a big chest and narrow body. Do you need to adjust Sense-ible often or does it stay tight?
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Postby rockermom » July 29th, 2006, 10:31 am

Well the lightbulb came on at yesterdays walk. I discovered what was causing the pulling issue. When I have beeen taking these walks I go with a friend she brings her son and I bring mine. On the way to meet my friend My son walked with Rocky and I, ALl was fine. When we all met of course excitement hits to meet friends. All is good. But then the kids walk way ahead of us. We just dont walk fast enough. The kids eventually end up out of site. It seems the whole walk Rocky is worried about where his kid is. Sniffing and walking with ears back determined to catch up. He occasionally stops to look back to see if Im still comming. When we are done with the walk my we split my friend and her kid go in a different direction and my son and I walk the rest of the way home together. No Pulling at all perfect heel. I put it all together when I remember going on a hike in the spring Rocky pulled and cried the whole time because of one girl hiking with us is an avid hiker and goes ahead of the rest. Rocky spent the whole time looking for her. As well as the other dogs on the hike were off lead and running ahead.
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Postby a-bull » July 29th, 2006, 10:43 am

there ya go! :wink:
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Postby chewbecca » August 8th, 2006, 9:03 am

When we got Ella she already was in a prong collar. The lady at the shelter says that when she walks her two pits she doubles up on their collars. She connects the leash to the prong AND to their regular collars just in case one were to break. Doing this though, I was told by her, makes the prong collar a little less effective.
I was SOOO against using a prong collar because they look like doggie medieval torture devices, but honestly, we HAD to with Ella. She was/is a puller.
I'd rather have even pressure than just straight trachea pressure.
Anyway, we must've gotten lucky because just in 2 days she is ALMOST to a point where we have to do NO corrections with the prong, she stays in stride with us (right next to us) and doesn't seem too distracted by too many things. We can keep the leash loose when we walk her. I only have to correct her a couple of times.
Ella is an ANGEL. We open the door on her crate and she goes right in. She sits and waits patiently when we have her ball. She doesn't try to dart out the door when someone goes in and out (not yet anyway), and while in her crate she doesn't bark, growl, or whine.
We're considering not even taking her to a trainer, but instead, just continue training on our own. BUT, my only issue is, I have no idea what she'll be like around other dogs. I do know that when we were walking past a german shepherd and a husky at the same time, she wasn't even phased really. She simply perked her ears up, looked their way (I corrected her) and that was it.
She doesn't bark AT ALL. Only once.
We bathed her and she was SOO well behaved.
The not knowing how she is around other dogs, well, that will take some careful socialization on my part.
They said at the obedience school that she TOLERATED the other dogs in class and there was only one female dog that she did not like. The two hated eachother.
We have worked a lot with her on commands, too. It's a constant thing that can not allow for slack, IMO.
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Postby mnp13 » August 8th, 2006, 9:34 am

I'm glad things are going well with Ella! It sounds like she is fitting in very well.

I do, however, want to caution you. Many rescue dogs go through a "honeymoon" period where they are perfict angels, then they morph into holy terrors; forgetting every command they have ever known.

I would suggest that you take an obedience class, even if she doesn't seem to need it. It's a good bonding experience for you and the dog and the trainer may be able to see things about you and her that you haven't noticed. As always, please check that trainer's references.
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Postby chewbecca » August 8th, 2006, 10:44 am

Well, as long as we keep working with her do you think she'll make it a month or two before going back into obedience classes? I only ask because that's when it would be financially best for us to put her in a class. I talked with a trainer yesterday that believes in a "balance" type of training technique. She said that there are some trainers that do no corrections and treat them when they are good. Then she said that there are some trainers that don't use treats or positive reinforcement at all and just give corrections (usually resulting in an unhappy dog who simply obeys the commands to avoid correction). She said she uses both. She said that if I'm concerned about dog aggression (which she said USUALLY ends up not being dog aggression but instead a curiosity) she will have me bring Ella out to her house and she has a GSD that is 6 1/2 years old that is completely non-responsive to other dogs. She will bring her in, set her in a lay/stay position (whatever the crap it's called) and I'll bring Ella in. She said if her dog is responsive to my dog at all, she will let me know that it probably would be best for Ella to have private lessons. She would also work on what Ella knows already and kind of take it from there. It would be an evaluation/consultation. She wants $30 for that. I didn't think that was a bad price at all. But I don't know what trainers charge. And I sure as crap don't know what the different training techniques are. I do know this lady told me that she keeps her training classes no bigger than 5 dogs per class. I thought that sounded good to me.
My boyfriend claims he knows a lady that his parents brought their giant schnauzer to for training that'll be cheaper. But she clicker trains. For my own personal view on my dog's training, I don't want to clicker train. She has not been clicker trained so far, I want to continue with the way she has been trained. Plus, from what his parents have told me, she uses some kind of tie around the waist leash. Uh, screw that. No way. If Ella did decide to chase a squirrel or something else that distracted her badly enough, I'd be gone. I'd be eating road.
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Postby mnp13 » August 8th, 2006, 10:48 am

The first trainer sounds like she has her stuff together, $30 for the evaluation is very reasonable. You might want to sit in on a couple of classes and see how she interacts with the dogs.

The clicker stuff isn't all that bad, as long as you avoid the clicker nazi people.
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Postby chewbecca » August 8th, 2006, 10:53 am

mnp13 wrote:The first trainer sounds like she has her stuff together, $30 for the evaluation is very reasonable. You might want to sit in on a couple of classes and see how she interacts with the dogs.

The clicker stuff isn't all that bad, as long as you avoid the clicker nazi people.


I guess that apparently this clicker trainer has MS and she has her dobermans trained to get clothes out of the dryer for her when she's in too much pain to do it herself. craaaaazy.

You don't think that it would be hard to start clicker training when Ella has been trained differently so far?
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Postby mnp13 » August 8th, 2006, 11:08 am

No, she's not too old at all. Ruby is 4 and a half and we are just strating with marker training, after over three years of using compulsion.
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Postby chewbecca » August 8th, 2006, 11:23 am

What's compulsion training?
Is that what we're doing with Ella with the prong?
I read, briefly, about marker training on the leerburg site. I didn't read enough about it to understand it but I've heard of it.
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Postby mnp13 » August 8th, 2006, 11:27 am

chewbecca wrote:What's compulsion training?
Is that what we're doing with Ella with the prong?
I read, briefly, about marker training on the leerburg site. I didn't read enough about it to understand it but I've heard of it.


Yes, using a prong to correct unwanted behaviors is compulsion training.

We are having a internationally known clicker trainer named Gary Wilkes at the Bullympics (http://www.Bullympics.com) if you can make it. He is supposed to be fantastic, and if his website is any indication he has quite the sense of humor as well!

http://www.clickandtreat.com/html/bullympics.html
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Postby chewbecca » August 8th, 2006, 1:57 pm

I checked out his site a bit. Sounds great!
But I won't be able to make it. I'll be busy with school and it's all the way in NY and I'm near Chicago. But thanks for the info!

Also, I've read that earthdog.com has some really nice collars. As soon as we get around to measuring Ella's neck, I'm going to be ordering a collar and leash from them.
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Postby rockermom » August 8th, 2006, 6:11 pm

I first attended a compulsion type of training class however we did not use prong collars only chokers or martingale with chain trainer was not a fan of prong. It did not sit well with ROcky so I switched to another class that used clicker. It was fine switching and Rocky loved it. Learning many new fun tricks. I would love to have found an inbetween and I think 30.00 is a great deal since the trainer I went to would have charged me 90.00 for a consultation and private lesson. I think it is fine to try different things.



Edited that only chokers or martingale with chain were used trainer was not fan of prong. I made it sound like none of the above were used.
Last edited by rockermom on August 10th, 2006, 3:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby 04100824 » August 10th, 2006, 2:28 pm

We work with Reno on a prong doubled with a pinch chain. (the leash goes through both) and we do the 180 thing. When we went to have him evaluated, this was how we were tought to use the prong collar - in case it comes apart, we still have control. You can very obviously see his restraint when we're on leash - he sees somehting exciting, and will start to go after it, but will quickly duck and look back/come back to us. Or, he'll come very close to taking off running, and you can see him do his little hop where he puts on his E-brakes. :wink:

Has worked quite nicely.

We haven't done any formal training with him...we've done it all ourselves. Honestly, working training sessions into a time and financial schedule has proven almost impossible, so instead we work with him whenever we can.

So far, he sits, lays down, "wait" (like heel), off, leave it, high 5, come (this one needs a bit more work, though), rolls over, go to jail (his crate - not that we use it for punishment, that's what the previous owners called it) and I'm going to work on teaching him to close doors with his nose, and strengthening his "look at me". He also hasn't done his growl/grumble thing in 3-4 weeks. Not even at dogs. :)

I plan on taking him at some point to some kind of class...just not able to right now, and honestly I'm in no rush considering how well he's been doing... I mean, when we first took him, he wouldn't even sit reliably on command. :shock:
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Postby a-bull » August 10th, 2006, 2:52 pm

I don't use prongs or chokes, so I'm just curious~

Will Reno always have to use a prong, choke or both to control him? What would he do if you just put a flat collar on and took him out for a walk?
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Postby mnp13 » August 10th, 2006, 3:35 pm

a-bull wrote:I don't use prongs or chokes, so I'm just curious~

Will Reno always have to use a prong, choke or both to control him? What would he do if you just put a flat collar on and took him out for a walk?


I'm not answering for her, but I can relate with my experiences.

It sounds to me like Reno is still learning respect for his owners and leash manners. Once the manners are there they will be able to transition off of the training collars.

It took a few weeks of work with Ruby, and unfortunately I made her collar smart so she only behaves well when it is on.
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Postby a-bull » August 10th, 2006, 3:48 pm

That's what I was wondering.

I remember you not liking the training harness because it was a "tool" and you didn't think it actually trained the dog.

I was thinking if you use a prong or a choke or both on a dog, how does that teach him to ever walk nice on a flat collar, and how do you know when he can?
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