Food Report Card. (Whats your food's score?)

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby turtle » May 27th, 2006, 6:14 pm

Maximus wrote:I think that's the bottom line: dogs are different, just like people are. So different dogs need different things, just like not all people would do well or maintain their optimum health on a vegetarian diet.

My own two dogs need vastly different things. Ruby tends to keep weight on. Chico will lose 5 pounds if he skips a meal (yes, of course that's an exaggeration). Ruby does not do well on a fully raw diet. I've tried a lot of different things, different sources, different supplements, different lengths of time... and it is not the miracle diet for her. Period. It made her sick. Over and over again. And no, she wasn't just "detoxing." And I got really tired of coming home multiple times a day to a pitiful-looking Ruby sitting in a crate full of diarrhea. Chico, on the other hand, does fabulously on a raw diet, and all the positive things I've read about it -- the beautiful coat, the body tone, the energy, the unbelievably tiny, non-stinky poops, etc. -- are true for him.

So I feed her half kibble, half raw (though she seems to have the most trouble with chicken, so I don't give her that anymore). Or I make whole-grain brown rice for her once a week and throw in some meaty goodness and an egg. Know what? The rice is good for her. Her digestive system seems to work a whole lot better when she gets it. And I give her (and Chico) fruits and veggies for treats. I do what works. She certainly isn't unhealthy.

There. Two dogs under the same roof who need vastly different things. The whole stupid argument between raw and kibble and what dogs really need comes down to that. And no score sheet is going to tell you that, because a score sheet doesn't take into account your individual dog's unique needs.



That's an excellent post and really is the bottom line!

Dogs are all different and what works for one may not work for another...
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Postby concreterose » May 27th, 2006, 7:09 pm

Maximus wrote:I think that's the bottom line: dogs are different, just like people are. So different dogs need different things, just like not all people would do well or maintain their optimum health on a vegetarian diet.

My own two dogs need vastly different things. Ruby tends to keep weight on. Chico will lose 5 pounds if he skips a meal (yes, of course that's an exaggeration). Ruby does not do well on a fully raw diet. I've tried a lot of different things, different sources, different supplements, different lengths of time... and it is not the miracle diet for her. Period. It made her sick. Over and over again. And no, she wasn't just "detoxing." And I got really tired of coming home multiple times a day to a pitiful-looking Ruby sitting in a crate full of diarrhea. Chico, on the other hand, does fabulously on a raw diet, and all the positive things I've read about it -- the beautiful coat, the body tone, the energy, the unbelievably tiny, non-stinky poops, etc. -- are true for him.

So I feed her half kibble, half raw (though she seems to have the most trouble with chicken, so I don't give her that anymore). Or I make whole-grain brown rice for her once a week and throw in some meaty goodness and an egg. Know what? The rice is good for her. Her digestive system seems to work a whole lot better when she gets it. And I give her (and Chico) fruits and veggies for treats. I do what works. She certainly isn't unhealthy.

There. Two dogs under the same roof who need vastly different things. The whole stupid argument between raw and kibble and what dogs really need comes down to that. And no score sheet is going to tell you that, because a score sheet doesn't take into account your individual dog's unique needs.

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Postby odnarb » May 28th, 2006, 2:02 pm

gf turtle wrote:The so called "grain free" kibbles substitute potato or tapioca as a binder. Potato and tapioca are both starches and really is not a good thing to have in dog food. Plus the protein levels of 42% in EVO and Raw Instinct are way too high to be healthy for a dog diet. Those are touted as high quality expensive kibbles yet they are not very healthy to feed a dog for any length of time.



Why are the starches bad? Potato is in a lot of foods, and the dogs seem to do well, so I'm curious.

I'd been feeding Canidae for years. The Bull Boys do great, and Harry did "OK." He wasn't skeletal and unhealthy, but he was thin and had cow pie stools. His stools had been fine on Eukanuba, but I'm sure it was the beet pulp. I couldn't bring myself to keep feeding that, plus he was needing 10-12 cups a day just to maintain. I tried other "better" foods only to just have him to worse. With the Canidae he didn't do terrible, so I stayed there for a while.

With some skepticism, I tried him on Evo. For the first time, he has nice stools, and is finally not looking like a starving half-feral Jackal. I'll be watching his bloodwork carefully. I'm still skeptical of the Evo, but he is doing well, so I'm not sure what to think.

I did feed TWolf for a while, and he did well on that. But, it seems that the local places that carry it have trouble keeping it in stock. Several times they ran out, and didn't get more before I needed it. Harry doesn't do food changes well, and I just couldn't take the risk of not having the food I need when I need it.
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Postby turtle » May 28th, 2006, 4:32 pm

odnarb wrote:
gf turtle wrote:The so called "grain free" kibbles substitute potato or tapioca as a binder. Potato and tapioca are both starches and really is not a good thing to have in dog food. Plus the protein levels of 42% in EVO and Raw Instinct are way too high to be healthy for a dog diet. Those are touted as high quality expensive kibbles yet they are not very healthy to feed a dog for any length of time.


Why are the starches bad? Potato is in a lot of foods, and the dogs seem to do well, so I'm curious.



I was in a discussion on another board that's long gone a few years ago about potato in dog foods. I'll have to go find my info on it, might take me a day or so... but I'll post it when I find it!
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Postby Verderben » May 28th, 2006, 8:41 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:Yes you can, there are several people on this board who have fed their dogs a raw diet for years with no problems at all. Munkee has chicken allergies so he can't eat it at all but he does great on beef, turkey & pork. Beef heart is a wonderful source of proten & when the others are having chicken he usually gets heart. But they ALL love it and all do well on it.


Someone, and I forget who said that I should never feed raw pork, but other meats are ok. Is this true? I used to give my dogs raw pork necks and they never got sick. I can get a really good deal on them where my bf works but have stopped buying them. So anyone who feeds RAW please let me know if it is ok to give my dogs raw pork because they really like those neck bones.
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Postby Verderben » May 28th, 2006, 10:34 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:
now for raw,
if jesse wasnt so freaking allergic to everything i would have her on raw.. but its not for her due to her immune system.. eventually she will have to go on something else as her system builds up an allergy to whatever she is eating after a while.. the vet cant understand it..



Munkee does the same thing. I feed him primarily turkey right now so as no to allow him to build up a tolerance to other foods. I think I may switch him to beef soon as he is getting horrible hot spots. He has environmental allergies too so it could be that that is causing it. I am hoping.


http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/changing_foods.htm
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 28th, 2006, 11:02 pm

Verderben wrote:
cheekymunkee wrote:
now for raw,
if jesse wasnt so freaking allergic to everything i would have her on raw.. but its not for her due to her immune system.. eventually she will have to go on something else as her system builds up an allergy to whatever she is eating after a while.. the vet cant understand it..



Munkee does the same thing. I feed him primarily turkey right now so as no to allow him to build up a tolerance to other foods. I think I may switch him to beef soon as he is getting horrible hot spots. He has environmental allergies too so it could be that that is causing it. I am hoping.


http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/changing_foods.htm


with an allergy dog it is best to keep them confined to one protein so that if/when ( if in his case) he develops an intolerance he has another outlet to go to that he has not been exposed to extending the time he has on it.
He does get beef kidney & liver and at least once a week and he has pork at times also so he is not eating turkey ALL the time, just moat of it.

as far as feeding pork, the problems with trich are virtually nill due to better food processing. It isn't even recommended anymore to cook it to shoe leather before consuming like it used to be. Some people refuse to feed it, some do with no problem. on the raw yahoo list I am on there have been no problems any one has encountered.

And one more thing HOW did the voice of reason get on this thread??????
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Postby Verderben » May 28th, 2006, 11:47 pm

I skimmed after a billion pages on beet pulp I missed the voice of reason in my skimming lol
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 28th, 2006, 11:55 pm

it snuck on in page 8 :D
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Postby SpiritFngrz » May 29th, 2006, 9:16 pm

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Postby turtle » May 31st, 2006, 3:11 pm

odnarb wrote:Why are the starches bad? Potato is in a lot of foods, and the dogs seem to do well, so I'm curious.

I'd been feeding Canidae for years. The Bull Boys do great, and Harry did "OK." He wasn't skeletal and unhealthy, but he was thin and had cow pie stools. His stools had been fine on Eukanuba, but I'm sure it was the beet pulp. I couldn't bring myself to keep feeding that, plus he was needing 10-12 cups a day just to maintain. I tried other "better" foods only to just have him to worse. With the Canidae he didn't do terrible, so I stayed there for a while.

With some skepticism, I tried him on Evo. For the first time, he has nice stools, and is finally not looking like a starving half-feral Jackal. I'll be watching his bloodwork carefully. I'm still skeptical of the Evo, but he is doing well, so I'm not sure what to think.

I did feed TWolf for a while, and he did well on that. But, it seems that the local places that carry it have trouble keeping it in stock. Several times they ran out, and didn't get more before I needed it. Harry doesn't do food changes well, and I just couldn't take the risk of not having the food I need when I need it.


I didn't forget LOL...

It took me some time to go back and look for the info I had on potatoes in dog foods and I found some of the links I had about it were now dead.

But I'll post what I have:


http://www.doglogic.com/food.htm

Take a look under "Dangerous Veggies", I will copy & paste below:

++++++++++++++++++++++++

~~The nightshade plants contain an alkaloid steroid called solanine. The foliage & unripe fruit contain dangerous levels of this steroid. The ripe fruit are the least toxic part of this family of plants but may be deadly under some circumstances. Solanine is also found in potato sprouts and the green spots on some potatoes. Sweet potatoes and yams are totally safe.

A toxic dose of solanine will manifest itself by creating severe digestive upset, trembling, weakness, difficulty in breathing and/or paralysis. Before using potato tubers as food remove all eyes/sprouts by digging them out of
the tuber. Never use any form of nightshade foliage/fruit/tubers as forage for livestock.

Potatoes gain their green color and solanine concentration from being allowed to be exposed to the sun while drying after harvesting.

Solanine inhibits the formation of the collagen that makes up cartilage. It is highly recommended that anyone/thing who suffers with any form of joint ailment stop ingesting all nightshade plants. To avoid any type of 'growing pains' as the vet called Pano and joint dysfunction, especially if predisposed, avoid all consumption of nightshade plant material.

I contacted the chemist in Utah involved with the production of Ace Hi Lamb, Rice & Potato dog food after discussing a Pano problem with a former Wellpetter and he was not aware of the solanine situation. He stated that they procure their potato products from various locations -primarily from fast food chains as unfit for human consumption. These included all potato waste, as he put it, such as eyes, skins, etc. They are/were legally allowed to state that the dog food contained potato but neglected to state on the package that it was unfit for human consumption or exactly what parts of the potato were involved.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++



Yeah, I'd be scratchin' my head too about Harry... I don't like EVO and I'd certainly monitor him when he's on it. But maybe he's such a calorie burning machine that he can take the high protein better than other dogs? How about his litter mates, what do they eat and how well are they doing on the food?

Since he does well on the TW, maybe rotate with that food? I know TW can be hard to get but I order it on line and so far it's been delivered in a few days.
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Postby Alaine » June 1st, 2006, 3:58 pm

That's great to see Kirkland's on there because I was going to go with Exceed from Sam's. now I don't have to change my membership from Costco to Sam's :P wooooohoooooooo
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Postby Cuda » June 12th, 2006, 10:49 am

Hey Michelle could you sticky this.
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