Renee's X-Rays

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Postby Hundilein » November 12th, 2009, 12:58 am

Just wanted to post a quick update on Renee's limping. I took Renee to the vet for x-rays today. The limp in her front leg has gone away, but she is still acting on and off like she's not quite herself, and in the past week she seemed stiff when she stood up sometimes, and would sometimes kind of hesitate when I asked her to sit. This led me to think that her hips might be hurting her.

They took x-rays of her hips, front legs, and spine. I talked to one vet today, who went over everything with me, but also suggested that I make an appointment to talk to another vet in the practice who is better at explaining x-rays. I will call to do that tomorrow. For now, it looks like Renee has some hip displasia, as well as arthritis in her front left "wrist" joint, and possibly spondylosis.

So now I'm in research mode to decide the best way to keep Renee as pain free as possible. Luckily I have a good friend whose dog was diagnosed with HD at 8 months old. She did tons of research and her dog is now doing quite well without any need for pain medication, so I've already talked to her about her experience. And I've looked through some old threads here as well.

If anyone has any advice on things to look into, I'd be happy to hear it.
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Postby call2arms » November 12th, 2009, 1:01 am

How old is she?

I've seen cartrophen injections work wonderfully on a lot of dogs, but I don't know just how appropriate it would be for her (seems to me like it would be, depending on if you want to go with the big guns or stick to oral supplements, which in this case Cosequin seems to work quite well).
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Postby madremissy » November 12th, 2009, 1:29 am

:hug3: Give Renee a kiss from me.
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Postby Malli » November 12th, 2009, 3:45 am

Oscar has HD, Osteoarthritis is 4 joints (hips and elbows in front), and Biceps tendonitis related to the arthritis.

Ask any questions you like :)

He is currently taking Fish Oil supplements and Cosequin DS, initially I had him on some pain meds, but once I got the hang of his exercise limits and the Glucosamine kicked in more, well I haven't given him any in quite some time.

I'm kind of "saving" the cartrophen, its expensive, and when the Cosequin doesn't work I want a fall back.

The biggest thing is, it isn't the end of the world! Not by a long shot ;)

Jen aka Marinepits also has dogs with Spondylosis and HD...
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Postby katiek0417 » November 12th, 2009, 5:49 am

I LOVE Liquid Health 5000....Cy doesn't have HD, but does have arthritis in his hips...and using the LH5000 completely alleviated all the symptoms...

Also, if you can get her to do it (and have anywhere you can do it), swimming is an EXCELLENT alternative for exercise for any dog with arthritis.
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Postby Marinepits » November 12th, 2009, 8:29 am

Sarah -- check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29588
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 12th, 2009, 9:24 am

First of all, good for you for spotting the trouble. :hug3: Like it was said, this is not the end of the world...there are many things that can be done nowadays. :D
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Postby Hundilein » November 12th, 2009, 11:13 am

Thanks everyone. I know it's not the end of the world, though I am kind of bummed that I likely won't be able to do flyball, agility or disc stuff with her anymore. The most important thing is for her to feel better though.
call2arms wrote:How old is she?

I've seen cartrophen injections work wonderfully on a lot of dogs, but I don't know just how appropriate it would be for her (seems to me like it would be, depending on if you want to go with the big guns or stick to oral supplements, which in this case Cosequin seems to work quite well).

Renee will be 5 years old in January. The vet mentioned Adequann injections, but I'm not sure I want to go there yet.

Malli wrote:Ask any questions you like :)

He is currently taking Fish Oil supplements and Cosequin DS, initially I had him on some pain meds, but once I got the hang of his exercise limits and the Glucosamine kicked in more, well I haven't given him any in quite some time.

I'm kind of "saving" the cartrophen, its expensive, and when the Cosequin doesn't work I want a fall back.

Thanks Malli! I kind of feel the same way about the Adequann. I'm hoping we can manage the pain with supplements for a while first. The vet suggested using aspirin for pain for now. Luckily Renee does seem to regulate herself as far as exercise goes, though once she's in less pain, that may change.

katiek0417 wrote:I LOVE Liquid Health 5000....Cy doesn't have HD, but does have arthritis in his hips...and using the LH5000 completely alleviated all the symptoms...

Also, if you can get her to do it (and have anywhere you can do it), swimming is an EXCELLENT alternative for exercise for any dog with arthritis.

I will look into the LH5000. My friend recommended supplements from Springtime, Inc., so I'm checking into them as well.

Renee has never liked the water, so swimming is pretty much out, unfortunately.

Marinepits wrote:Sarah -- check out this thread: http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29588

That's the first one I looked at on here, great info!
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Postby plebayo » November 12th, 2009, 11:26 am

My dog just recently got diagnosed with Mild HD. I noticed she was walking really weird, she has little bend to her knees and looked kind of bow legged, one of our vets felt her up and said she felt like she had arthritis in her knees [she is 4yrs btw] I x-rayed her hips and knees, knees looked great, her hips are icky. Mind you I did Penn Hip at 18 weeks of age [have to do JPS surgery by 20 weeks] and she had normal necks on x-ray back then, now they are crap.

I have her on a Glucosemine Supplement w/ msm. I was thinking about Adequan but I don't feel she is bad enough to go that route, although it slows the progression of arthritis so it's kind of a preventative measure - but I am waiting.

I started Acupuncture with her because we had a relief veterinarian who did it and I do think it has helped. Dogs with bad hips tend to shift their weight to their front end which can cause their muscles in their back and shoulders to be sore.

I second the use of Cosequin or Dasaquin I know a lot of dogs on it that do well. Like it's been mentioned Fish oil is a good way to go as well.

She may have to slow down a little, but maybe you could have a new dock dog on your hands ;) Swimming would be less hard on the joints anyway hehe.
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Postby Marinepits » November 12th, 2009, 11:37 am

About 6 years ago, our old girl, Samantha (who looked VERY much like Renee :shock: ), had some bad arthritis in her hips. We experimented with Adequan and she didn't do well on it -- her limping/pain didn't seem to improve at all and she got pukey after the injections. Not sure why, but it could have been her kidney disease/failure contributing to it. We had to euthanize her because of the kidney issues before we got too far into the Adequan treatments.

Hopefully, if you need to fall back on that, you'll have better results than we did! :)

I'm not sure if you guys have to deal with ticks/tick-borne diseases like we do here in Tick Central, but you might want to get her checked for Lyme and/or ehrlichia. In both Mac's and Katy's cases, their arthritis/HD became FAR more pronounced when they had the diseases. Right now, we're dealing with Mac once again having ehrlichia -- he's on Doxy for the next month and his limping has improved somewhat, but he's still struggling at times.
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Postby maberi » November 12th, 2009, 11:38 am

Hundilein wrote:They took x-rays of her hips, front legs, and spine. I talked to one vet today, who went over everything with me, but also suggested that I make an appointment to talk to another vet in the practice who is better at explaining x-rays. I will call to do that tomorrow. For now, it looks like Renee has some hip displasia, as well as arthritis in her front left "wrist" joint, and possibly spondylosis.


And if it were MY dog, I would wait until I spoke to a specialist before preparing a plan of attack. I've seen some horrible assumptions made based on x-rays in the past. I'm certainly not saying the vet that viewed the x-rays has made any assumptions or misdiagnosed anything. I've just found that in my own past experience that the specialists in certain areas are able to provide much more insight to specific disorders.
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Postby Hundilein » November 12th, 2009, 11:51 am

maberi wrote:And if it were MY dog, I would wait until I spoke to a specialist before preparing a plan of attack. I've seen some horrible assumptions made based on x-rays in the past. I'm certainly not saying the vet that viewed the x-rays has made any assumptions or misdiagnosed anything. I've just found that in my own past experience that the specialists in certain areas are able to provide much more insight to specific disorders.


Thanks for the advice Matt! One of the things they offered is to have the images sent to a specialist to interpret them. I think I'll wait until I talk to the other vet at the same practice to decide for sure, but I'm thinking that may be a good idea.

Marinepits wrote:I'm not sure if you guys have to deal with ticks/tick-borne diseases like we do here in Tick Central, but you might want to get her checked for Lyme and/or ehrlichia. In both Mac's and Katy's cases, their arthritis/HD became FAR more pronounced when they had the diseases. Right now, we're dealing with Mac once again having ehrlichia -- he's on Doxy for the next month and his limping has improved somewhat, but he's still struggling at times.

I had thought about that before I talked to the vet and then completely forgot to mention it when I saw her. I honestly don't know how bad ticks are around here. I'll put that on my list of questions (which I am actually writing down this time so I won't forget).
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 12th, 2009, 12:04 pm

Hundilein wrote:Thanks everyone. I know it's not the end of the world, though I am kind of bummed that I likely won't be able to do flyball, agility or disc stuff with her anymore. The most important thing is for her to feel better though.


I know a ton of dogs that still do sports (flyball, agility, etc) with HD and arthritis...you just have to take it easy and know your dog. I find the dogs that stay active do better... :| Rip has arthritis in his back and hips, and he still gets out onto the lanes to practice occasionally (I'd run him in vets, but he's always been too slow...lol...can't blame the arthritis). We have two HD dogs on our team now, and they run half-slots, and get pulled if they're having issues...one runs Vets even. It's not the end to everything she does.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't keep doing flyball, that's up to you, and to Renee...but just saying there are things she can still participate in!
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Postby Pit♥bull » November 12th, 2009, 12:15 pm

I can't offer advice but.....
I can offer :goodthoughts: :goodthoughts:
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Postby Malli » November 12th, 2009, 1:53 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:
Hundilein wrote:Thanks everyone. I know it's not the end of the world, though I am kind of bummed that I likely won't be able to do flyball, agility or disc stuff with her anymore. The most important thing is for her to feel better though.


I know a ton of dogs that still do sports (flyball, agility, etc) with HD and arthritis...you just have to take it easy and know your dog. I find the dogs that stay active do better... :| Rip has arthritis in his back and hips, and he still gets out onto the lanes to practice occasionally (I'd run him in vets, but he's always been too slow...lol...can't blame the arthritis). We have two HD dogs on our team now, and they run half-slots, and get pulled if they're having issues...one runs Vets even. It's not the end to everything she does.

I'm not saying you should or shouldn't keep doing flyball, that's up to you, and to Renee...but just saying there are things she can still participate in!



all due respect, running and jumping are a little dicey when it comes to arthritis - you have to be very careful, and the pain can be tricky because with arthritis the longer the dog has pain the more pain the dog is in(they become more and more sensitive to it) - its a "vicious cycle"

I think it also depends on the time in the dog's life that they are diagnosed - 5 and 6(Oscar was 6 yrs at diagnosis), my thoughts are to have Oscar be as active as possible without getting sore so that he doesn't alter his gait (wich will further his problems), and hopefully he can continue this level of activity for a while.

If he'd been diagnosed at an older age, I'd sort of have a "have at 'er" attitude and let him do whatever he liked (and whatever sport he liked), but I'm hoping by being so diligent about his exercise that I'll really be able to control the damage done.
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Postby Ino » November 15th, 2009, 1:54 pm

I bought the Liquid Health Green Grown Glucosamine and HA for Ino because he seemed to break out from the glucosamine suppliments that contained shellfish ( I do not know if the 5000 does, but the local pet shop only had the green grown Liquid Health, not the 5000- the other brands of glucosamine Ino tried contined shellfish). This one has no shellfish or beef and he did not break out at all. Between the Liquid Health and the suppliments from the holistic vet, his knees are doing great. He had a slightly torn ligament in both knees. I also give it to him because he is mixed with English Bulldog and they are known to have joint issues so I am trying to take a preventative approach. Best wishes for Renee's recovery. :D
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Postby BullyLady » November 15th, 2009, 6:48 pm

Hundilein wrote: The vet mentioned Adequann injections, but I'm not sure I want to go there yet.



Do you say that because of the cost associated with Adequann? I only ask because we found that to be the best non-medication available when we were going through major hip dysplasia with our first AB. We put her on Deramaxx first, which helped immensely, but she still limped a little in the cold weather and in the mornings, but when we added the Adequann there was absolutely no more pain. Only on the very coldest days did I have to add Tramadol first thing in the morning, we really felt like Adequann was a godsend for her. All told she was on a double dose of glucosamine/chondroiton, the low end of the dosage spectrum for Deramaxx, monthly Adequann, and then Tramadol in the coldest parts of winter.
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Postby Hundilein » November 15th, 2009, 7:29 pm

BullyLady wrote:Do you say that because of the cost associated with Adequann? I only ask because we found that to be the best non-medication available when we were going through major hip dysplasia with our first AB. We put her on Deramaxx first, which helped immensely, but she still limped a little in the cold weather and in the mornings, but when we added the Adequann there was absolutely no more pain. Only on the very coldest days did I have to add Tramadol first thing in the morning, we really felt like Adequann was a godsend for her. All told she was on a double dose of glucosamine/chondroiton, the low end of the dosage spectrum for Deramaxx, monthly Adequann, and then Tramadol in the coldest parts of winter.


Some of it is cost. And the other vet I saw was much better at explaining things and she didn't suggest Adequann at this point. And, she's not really showing many symptoms. She has hardly limped since I took her in the first time a month ago. Other than the x-ray that says she has arthritis, I was beginning to think I was nuts for taking her in at all. If that changes significantly, I'll reassess with my vet, but for now I think getting her on a better joint supplement might be enough to keep her out of pain.
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