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Postby Jackuul » July 31st, 2009, 3:27 pm

Can dogs have vancomycin in combination with what is already given? I know that in humans, a strain of staph or anything else can become resistant to one or even two antibiotics - but when you want something dead, you use more than two. I.E. rolling out the heavy artillery of multiple antibiotics for a synergy of doom for the bacteria.

TO WIKIPEDIA (60's Batman Theme)

Antibiotic resistance

Pseudomonas aeruginosa is a highly relevant opportunistic pathogen. One of the most worrisome characteristics of P. aeruginosa is its low antibiotic susceptibility. This low susceptibility is attributable to a concerted action of multidrug efflux pumps with chromosomally-encoded antibiotic resistance genes and the low permeability of the bacterial cellular envelopes. In addition to this intrinsic resistance, P. aeruginosa easily develops acquired resistance either by mutation in chromosomally-encoded genes or by the horizontal gene transfer of antibiotic resistance determinants. Development of multidrug resistance by P. aeruginosa isolates requires several different genetic events including acquisition of different mutations and/or horizontal transfer of antibiotic resistance genes. Hypermutation favours the selection of mutation-driven antibiotic resistance in P. aeruginosa strains producing chronic infections, whereas the clustering of several different antibiotic resistance genes in integrons favors the concerted acquisition of antibiotic resistance determinants. Some recent studies have shown that phenotypic resistance associated to biofilm formation or to the emergence of small-colony variants may be important in the response of P. aeruginosa populations to antibiotics treatment.[13]

[edit] Phosphate trigger

Phosphate has been implicated in pathogenesis of P. aeruginosa which is normally benign. Phosphate is required by the bacteria for normal functioning, and has been shown in experiments on two very different organisms to turn on its host.[18]

[edit] Prevention

Medical-grade honey may reduce colonization of many pathogens including Pseudomonas aeruginosa.[29] Probiotic prophylaxis may prevent colonization and delay onset of pseudomonas infection in an ICU setting.[30] Immunoprophylaxis against pseudomonas is being investigated.[31]


Roll out the big guns - talk to the vet about possibly doing more than two or three kinds of antibiotics, if the dog can handle it. I am not an expert in dog biology by any means, so I haven't the foggiest about how many she can handle at the same time like a human can - however you can expect some tummy upset. When the stuff is dead, it will be probiotic time.

Also
http://www.springerlink.com/content/v23k13731257h332/

Fifty-nine percent of biofilm-grown B. cepacia isolates and 29% of P. aeruginosa isolates were resistant to all double antibiotic combinations tested. Triple antibiotic combinations were more effective than double antibiotic combinations against biofilms (P < 0.0001). For P. aeruginosa biofilms, the addition of azithromycin or rifampin to otherwise effective antibiotic combinations was frequently associated with antagonism. Bacterial biofilms of CF organisms are highly resistant to antibiotics. This study identified potentially effective antibiotic combinations to guide the empirical treatment of CF pulmonary exacerbations.


Nuke the bastards - three or more different kinds of antibiotics for humans is what it takes - so unless dogs have more adverse reactions... start the carpet bombing ASAP.
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Postby katiek0417 » July 31st, 2009, 3:36 pm

Well, the strain of pseudomonas is sensitive to cipro...which is what he put her on...and it's sensitive to amikacin as well...

He's trying to stay away from the vancomycin if possible b/c it would require an IV cath...he's afraid she'll continuously get it out...and he doesn't mind teaching me how to do them...but he's trying to keep things as sterile as possible for her, my house, and me
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Postby furever_pit » July 31st, 2009, 6:49 pm

I'm so sorry to hear this news K. Keeping you and Dru in my thoughts. ((hugs))
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Postby Jackuul » July 31st, 2009, 7:02 pm

katiek0417 wrote:Well, the strain of pseudomonas is sensitive to cipro...which is what he put her on...and it's sensitive to amikacin as well...

He's trying to stay away from the vancomycin if possible b/c it would require an IV cath...he's afraid she'll continuously get it out...and he doesn't mind teaching me how to do them...but he's trying to keep things as sterile as possible for her, my house, and me


I can understand that, but there must be more that can be done with non IV administered antibiotics? You're at war with the bacteria, show them no mercy!

Would topical antibiotic ointments help?
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Postby katiek0417 » July 31st, 2009, 7:50 pm

Jackuul wrote:
katiek0417 wrote:Well, the strain of pseudomonas is sensitive to cipro...which is what he put her on...and it's sensitive to amikacin as well...

He's trying to stay away from the vancomycin if possible b/c it would require an IV cath...he's afraid she'll continuously get it out...and he doesn't mind teaching me how to do them...but he's trying to keep things as sterile as possible for her, my house, and me


I can understand that, but there must be more that can be done with non IV administered antibiotics? You're at war with the bacteria, show them no mercy!

Would topical antibiotic ointments help?


The problem is that it's sensitive to so few things...vancomycin, florfenicol, linezolid, amikacin, and rifampin are the things that it's sensitive to (according to the sensitivity profile of her strain)...

According to the research he's done, amikacin is one of the safest things he can use...and there are so many risks with even that (to the kidneys) - hence the fluids...also, the amikacin SHOULD knock out both the MRSI and the pseudomonas...the problem is getting the dose high enough to be effective...if it's going to be effective...

That's why he wants to try upping her dose first...

And no, there's no topical strong enough......
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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Postby mnp13 » July 31st, 2009, 10:05 pm

Please don't think I am second guessing your vet, because I am not.

Have you looked into any alternative/holistic treatments that you might be able to use to compliment the traditional treatments? Something to help boost her immune system or provide kidney support?

I'm not sure how they would interact, but it might be something to think about it.
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Postby katiek0417 » July 31st, 2009, 10:21 pm

mnp13 wrote:Please don't think I am second guessing your vet, because I am not.

Have you looked into any alternative/holistic treatments that you might be able to use to compliment the traditional treatments? Something to help boost her immune system or provide kidney support?

I'm not sure how they would interact, but it might be something to think about it.


Well, she's already getting manuka honey...that's supposed to help suppress/kill MRSA (so I'd assume it works on MRSI)...

But, honestly, Michelle, my vet allows me to pay off my bills slowly and carry a balance...I don't have the money to take her anywhere else where they'll make me pay right away... :oops:
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
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Postby CinderDee » August 1st, 2009, 7:25 am

I'm sorry to hear this Katrina, but it's just another bump in this crazy road to getting well. You & Dru will beat this!
When she's all better we need to have a big forum party!

:goodthoughts: :goodthoughts: :goodthoughts:
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Postby Malli » August 1st, 2009, 7:53 pm

good thoughts!

Katrina, just keep on truckin', it will be ok :)
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Postby HappyChick » August 1st, 2009, 10:52 pm

Katrina- I'm sorry to read this, but I'm confident you and Dru will beat it!



:goodthoughts:
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Postby blabsforbullies » August 2nd, 2009, 12:47 pm

The light is still on.... this is just a minor set back. :wink: I am pulling for you!!!! :hug3:
We have a Mastiff... does that count??? :)
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Postby mnp13 » August 3rd, 2009, 5:09 pm

Michelle

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 3rd, 2009, 5:14 pm

lmao
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Postby katiek0417 » August 3rd, 2009, 5:14 pm

mnp13 wrote:Here, I made you a shirt.
Image
http://www.cafepress.com/rubypress.400585324


EEEEKKKKK!!!! I LOVE IT! I'm ordering a couple! Can we do a men's shirt like it? I want to order one for Greg!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby mnp13 » August 3rd, 2009, 5:20 pm

sure. what color? I can do the dark ones as well, I'm just going to make the graphic look like a white "button"
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Postby katiek0417 » August 3rd, 2009, 5:26 pm

mnp13 wrote:sure. what color? I can do the dark ones as well, I'm just going to make the graphic look like a white "button"


What do you mean?

Also, can I post this on the new PSA forum?
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby mnp13 » August 3rd, 2009, 5:45 pm

I added a bunch more.

You're welcome to put it up on the PSA forum. I'll be adding more breeds as I make them.
Michelle

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Postby iluvk9 » August 4th, 2009, 7:58 am

Great shirt, Michelle. 8)
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Postby Malli » August 4th, 2009, 12:48 pm

thats an awesome shirt.
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Postby HappyChick » August 9th, 2009, 9:17 am

How is Dru doing?
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
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