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Postby Mickle » May 6th, 2009, 4:06 pm

I like me a good show...1 vote in for no pants! LOL
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Postby Mickle » May 6th, 2009, 4:12 pm

Oh and Hooray for our filthy language!
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Postby Banditman » May 6th, 2009, 4:24 pm

Hello,I see this topic has caused quite a stir!

If you would,help me understand the issue at hand here.

Is it no titles on the dogs? Because EVERY good breeding ever done has come from TITLED parents,because remember titles mean the dogs are producers and not just dogs with training threw patterns right?

Is it the thought that any of these dogs may end up in a shelter? Have you seen the contract involved with one of our dogs? Humm I didn't see that question come up.We take back our dogs,they do not go to shelters.

Is it that you think this was just a breeding done on a whim? No thought behind it or direction hoping to be achieved? Incorrect,not in 15yrs. has one breeding been done without carefully TESTING our dogs and looking to produce only the absolute BEST PHYSICALLY AND TEMPERMENT SOUND animals possible. In 15yrs. I personally have sold 5 dogs,the rest have been through hand picked placements.

Is it that Alyssa in the past has voiced STRONG opinions on subjects that she has sinced changed her mind on,and nows a chance to brake the claws out on her? More than likely.......

Does anyone here have questions to how extensively the dogs have been tested for working ability? Fearful the dogs can't handle pressure or might not be good representatives of the breed? Bandit is my house dog,lives with myself and five children ranging in age from 2 to 17 (dogs are easier) and travels everywhere with me. He's won some PP comp's competing in Advanced,he's been worked on decoy's and helpers from nearly every discipline Sch,FR,MR,BR,PSA etc. he's an extrememly versatile dog with an excellent temperament. He has been bred including Teenie 3 times and out of the first two produced a few very nice working prospects.

Not sure what the EXTREME OFFENSIVENESS of this breeding is or if it is more a personal issue. If personal then .........If theirs questions about the breed or the intent of the breeding and what's hoped to be produced I'd love to answer your questions. Just for the record it had nothing to do with money,never has and never will.

Take care,
Mike
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Postby amazincc » May 6th, 2009, 4:29 pm

I don't have a problem w/Alyssa breeding Teeny... but just to clarify for all: What DO you hope/intent to produce, and why? :wink:
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 6th, 2009, 4:36 pm

airwalk wrote:

I figure if someone comes here to only stir up crap..they'll get to deal with you guys...that's all that means.

as for the untitled, untested litter...you're right Deb it's not the first...but as Michelle's signature line says silence is consent....


Gotcha!

Mickle wrote:I like me a good show...1 vote in for no pants! LOL


Depends. If it is Sis, I vote no ( I got my own to look at thank you) but if Jamie is a boy then he has my vote.


Honestly, I do wish Sis would have waited, partially so she could have avoided this. It was her choice and she decided not to. We talked at length about her decision and she feels she made the right one. While I may not agree with it, I don't have to. I do hope for a healthy delivery and that the litter is everything she hopes it will be.

None of my dogs have ever been from titled and tested litters. ALL of them ( except for Justice) were bred by my family members, who have been in the breed for decades. Sadly, Munkee is the last of them as my uncles and father have all passed on.

Justice was purchased from a person who was weight pulling his dogs. He did have their hips tested, ( and only their hips) his male was titled in weight pull, his female had points but was not titled. After the litter she went on to title in weight pull. This was the only litter he bred before he too passed away. I do not regret my purchase of Justice ( $300 with $100 refunded upon her spay) and given the chance I would do it again. She is a great dog & my daughter's best friend. That may make me a bad person in some people's eyes, so be it. It is what it is.

Remember that no one, NO ONE follows the COE to a T. It is virtually impossible to follow to a T. Sure, there are people who get very close & who do try their best to. Not to mention it was written for APBT & AST breeders if I am not mistaken. I don't guess that really matters though.

Carry on.....
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Postby amazincc » May 6th, 2009, 4:50 pm

I don't care about pants OR language... just happy, healthy puppies! :D
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Postby airwalk » May 6th, 2009, 4:57 pm

This is my final post here but I want to answer a couple of Mike's comments.

On my part this is not personal. I don't know Alyssa from Adam nor do I know you. I can't make it personal about someone I have no relationship.

I manage a shelter. I see purebred dogs that were never suppose to see the inside of a shelter....their breeders were sure of that. I see them every day. I see most breeds. I see owners that the breeders were absolutely certain were responsible. I kill dogs every week. Those are the facts of my life.

Goldendoodles were once a new breed. Labradoodles were once a new breed. Pappychi's were once a new breed. Each of these were someone breeding what they loved best about one dog to what is loved best about another. There are good ones and there are bad ones...and they are in shelters.

So no this isn't personal...I believe breeding should be the best to the best for no other reason that to make a breed better. period..end of conversation. If breeding is occuring for any other reason..then it shouldn't occur IMHO.

The whole, none of my puppies would ever wind up in a shelter simply doesn't hold water with me..I see too many puppies, too many adults from every breed both old and new.

I find rarely does a "new breed" improve on the old breed they simply change it and not always for the better. Every new breed becomes a changed breed no matter how hard the ethical breeders try.

That's it, that's all...nothing hiding behind door #1, no alterior motives....nothing personal. If Teeny had been tested and titled to be the best of the best and the male had also...so be it - Teeny has not and I don't know anything about the male so I can't comment there.
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Postby BritneyP » May 6th, 2009, 5:18 pm

:popcorn2:
Cruiser v Kellhof, CGC, TDInc- GSD
Jack z Esagilu, Police K9- GSD
Pia z Westwood- GSD
Darca z Perstatskeho mlyna- GSD
Sadie v Foster- GSD
Nala, CGC- GSD
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Postby Banditman » May 6th, 2009, 5:27 pm

Very Noble work running a shelter,my hat's off to you. I to have worked in shelters and have done many eval's for shelters dealing with aggressive bull breeds.

I cull my own.

Again I will point out contracts,working homes. If a prospect does not work out they come back here,also I'm not above driving great distances and removing the dog.

I feel at this point Bandit and Teenie are two of the best of the best......period,wait that's like six.Seven

With me you can hold your water on my statement and if not get a bucket with out a whole.

I don't like labradoodles.......

I never pick door #1 ever,the bad guy's always behind door #3.....alway's,alway's!!!Why is that?

So in a nutshell you disagree with breeding period?

Take care,and thank you for all you do.

Mike
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Postby airwalk » May 6th, 2009, 5:59 pm

Snideness is very unbecoming and clearly not worthy of response. :wave2:
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Postby cheekymunkee » May 6th, 2009, 6:15 pm

Can we all just stop the rude comments please? Thank you.
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Postby Banditman » May 6th, 2009, 6:16 pm

Ummm.....but you just replied.

Also I was not trying to be snide.....

I really do appreciate folks like yourself.

So thanks,

Mike
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Postby Mickle » May 6th, 2009, 6:21 pm

LOL...Nice posts Mike! Geeze I so wish I was good at writing!
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Postby Mickle » May 6th, 2009, 6:35 pm

I was totally confused! I went to check on this and didnt realize it was moved! HA!
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Postby blabsforbullies » May 6th, 2009, 8:04 pm

In my 10 years as a veterinarian, and nearly 10 as a vet tech prior to that, I have never seen a dog that had a hip that is subluxated while either in heat or pregnant, and then be normal (or what I would consider to be breeding quality) at a later date. :neutral: To me, even if this was a common occurance (clinically I have not found this to be true, despite what OFA may or may not say :rolleyes2: ), I feel it is the RESPONSIBILTY of the breeder to WAIT and re-xray those hips to be absolutely sure there is no dysplasia. To say that you intended to breed regardless of the hip evaluation is never, in my opinion, doing anything postitive for any breed. :sad2: All other factors aside, these dogs are, in your words, going to be working dogs. They need every joint to be as healthy as possible. :wink: I don't understand why health testings were not made a priority, especially in a new breed that, presumably, has a small acceptable genetic pool (simply by the sheer numbers of these dogs out there). :confused:

As to the comment that this breed doesn't suffer from many of the diseases that other breeds do, my feeling is that no dog is that lucky. :cry: If this breed is truly as new as suggested, then health issues may not be apparent yet. :| As for seeing visual signs of having bad hips, that is just not reliably true. For example, my dog Colby, who is one of the top dock diving dogs in the east coast, has terrible hips and elbows. And I mean TERRIBLE. He has absolutely not one visual sign. He is muscular, he has a normal gait, runs normally, is fast, and there is nothing wrong visually.

I only worry about the health of the dogs, and the rest is really not my area of expertise. :dance:
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Postby BullyLady » May 6th, 2009, 8:30 pm

GREAT post Dr. Blabs. Really great! :clap:
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Postby LMM » May 6th, 2009, 8:30 pm

I have a question about culling. Should I just ask it here or start another thread?


While I don't really agree with breeding, I love Teeny and cannot wait to see her pups. I know, total contradiction.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » May 6th, 2009, 8:34 pm

Why don't you start another thread. And I agree - I disagree with this breeding (sorry Lys!) but I do love me some Teeny and wish nothing but a 100% healthy birth and pups.
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Postby Pit♥bull » May 6th, 2009, 9:30 pm

Opinions are liked a$$holes, everybody has one. :|
My opinion is that's 'what's good for the goose, is good for the gander' so why is it that some folks get their butts chewed from one end to the other and others do not. :| This breeding was kept secret until someone 'spilled the beans' seemingly just to stir the pot and if certain folks would be up front then topics like this would never get out of control.
Let's get back to the supposed purpose of this board.... Helping each other :)

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Postby a-bull » May 6th, 2009, 9:32 pm

blabsforbullies wrote:In my 10 years as a veterinarian, and nearly 10 as a vet tech prior to that, I have never seen a dog that had a hip that is subluxated while either in heat or pregnant, and then be normal (or what I would consider to be breeding quality) at a later date. :neutral: To me, even if this was a common occurance (clinically I have not found this to be true, despite what OFA may or may not say :rolleyes2: ), I feel it is the RESPONSIBILTY of the breeder to WAIT and re-xray those hips to be absolutely sure there is no dysplasia. To say that you intended to breed regardless of the hip evaluation is never, in my opinion, doing anything postitive for any breed. :sad2: All other factors aside, these dogs are, in your words, going to be working dogs. They need every joint to be as healthy as possible. :wink: I don't understand why health testings were not made a priority, especially in a new breed that, presumably, has a small acceptable genetic pool (simply by the sheer numbers of these dogs out there). :confused:

As to the comment that this breed doesn't suffer from many of the diseases that other breeds do, my feeling is that no dog is that lucky. :cry: If this breed is truly as new as suggested, then health issues may not be apparent yet. :| As for seeing visual signs of having bad hips, that is just not reliably true. For example, my dog Colby, who is one of the top dock diving dogs in the east coast, has terrible hips and elbows. And I mean TERRIBLE. He has absolutely not one visual sign. He is muscular, he has a normal gait, runs normally, is fast, and there is nothing wrong visually.

I only worry about the health of the dogs, and the rest is really not my area of expertise. :dance:



Can't say I'd debate much here.

I guess my thought was also that if you think you have a breed that suffers no health related issues as a result of its' merle genetics, that is either an anomaly, or maybe there isn't enough history with the breed, as you suggested.

Merle breedings are tough, and I'm not a vet or a geneticist. Just a merle dog owner.
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