Diarrhea & Giardia Questions

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby Dog_Shrink » April 6th, 2009, 6:54 pm

No I'm not a vet, I'm an Animal Behavior Specialist which requires knowing a little about a lot :) . I also write a column for our local paper. I've been doing this for over 17 years and also own a herd of 5 dogs myself so you learn how to treat the ailments that usually send the average person running to the vet at home. I use a really great book also. It's called the " Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook" ISBN# 0-13-085632-0 (ppc) If you put that # into a search at Amazon or borders you can find it, plus there is an Amazon link to it on my webpage. http://RollOverRover.spaces.live.com I have the first edition and I LOVE it... It has saved me so much money is vet bills... I can't begin to tell ya.
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Postby katiek0417 » April 6th, 2009, 8:28 pm

Dog_Shrink wrote:No I'm not a vet, I'm an Animal Behavior Specialist which requires knowing a little about a lot :) . I also write a column for our local paper. I've been doing this for over 17 years and also own a herd of 5 dogs myself so you learn how to treat the ailments that usually send the average person running to the vet at home. I use a really great book also. It's called the " Dog Owner's Home Veterinary Handbook" ISBN# 0-13-085632-0 (ppc) If you put that # into a search at Amazon or borders you can find it, plus there is an Amazon link to it on my webpage. http://RollOverRover.spaces.live.com I have the first edition and I LOVE it... It has saved me so much money is vet bills... I can't begin to tell ya.


I have that book, as well...

But when it comes to giardia (as well as many other internal poopy issues), I leave all advice to my vet...I've had giardia around my house several times... :rolleyes2: We have now given the vaccine to the dogs...

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since giardia did come up...Dr. Blabs, how effective is the vaccine against giardia? And, is there some preference over the use of Panacur vs. metronidazole?

Playaplease813 wrote:It is called the Antibiotic, Skin, Standard Package
Clavamox 375mg
Metronidazole 250mg


I wonder if your vet gave the metronidazole with the clavamox because clavamox can lead to diarrhea??? :rolleyes2: I know that there have been times when either Chuck or Adam gives us metronidazole if they have to put the dogs on antibiotics... :rolleyes2:

How are his poops now???
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby blabsforbullies » April 6th, 2009, 9:26 pm

katiek0417 wrote:I don't mean to hijack this thread, but since giardia did come up...Dr. Blabs, how effective is the vaccine against giardia? And, is there some preference over the use of Panacur vs. metronidazole?


I have to be honest. I just went to a continuing education seminar in December, and we talked at length about Giardiasis. So much is not understood about testing, and which forms are cause for zoonosis. The speaker I listened to, as well as the general consensus that I have heard, is that it isn't terribly effective. :sad2: Most feel it can't hurt, but I have heard of very few success stories with the vaccine helping control that blasted disease.

As far as treatment, it used to be thought that metronidazole was the first choice, but the current thinking is that it only gets about 60% of the Giardia that is out there. :neutral: Panacur is now thought to be more efficacious. I treat dogs with cysts (not just the ELISA), for 7 days. If they are just ELISA positive, I treat for 5 days. Then recheck the fecal in 2-4 weeks after the last dose. Checking sooner than that might lead to a false positive result. It is so tough because, as you know, it lives in the environment FOREVER..... :mad2:

Does that help at all? If not, let me know. I can try at get more details for you. :D
We have a Mastiff... does that count??? :)
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Postby call2arms » April 6th, 2009, 9:53 pm

Oh those stupid little hairy eyed racquetballs. I hated them in parasitology, they are a pain in the ass to find in a float (love my pun here)... :D
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I can say words like undifferentiated gonads now!
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Postby katiek0417 » April 7th, 2009, 7:16 pm

blabsforbullies wrote:I have to be honest. I just went to a continuing education seminar in December, and we talked at length about Giardiasis. So much is not understood about testing, and which forms are cause for zoonosis. The speaker I listened to, as well as the general consensus that I have heard, is that it isn't terribly effective. :sad2: Most feel it can't hurt, but I have heard of very few success stories with the vaccine helping control that blasted disease.

As far as treatment, it used to be thought that metronidazole was the first choice, but the current thinking is that it only gets about 60% of the Giardia that is out there. :neutral: Panacur is now thought to be more efficacious. I treat dogs with cysts (not just the ELISA), for 7 days. If they are just ELISA positive, I treat for 5 days. Then recheck the fecal in 2-4 weeks after the last dose. Checking sooner than that might lead to a false positive result. It is so tough because, as you know, it lives in the environment FOREVER..... :mad2:

Does that help at all? If not, let me know. I can try at get more details for you. :D


Wow! Thank you for that info!

When doing Panacur, is it recommended that it be repeated 3 weeks later, then 3 months (as it would be for worms)?

I (well, not me...but the dogs) had our most recent bout of giardia with Nemo...he was originally prescribed 10 days of double dose metronidazole...when he still had soft stools and problems gaining weight, our other vet told us to use the panacur...that seemed to do the trick!

But, yes, it's very hard to get rid of...with all the dogs we have, our vet has just recommended that we just go ahead and give them a 3-day dose of panacur every 6 months, then also do a fecal every 6 months...so far, so good in doing that...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby blabsforbullies » April 7th, 2009, 8:43 pm

katiek0417 wrote:Wow! Thank you for that info!

When doing Panacur, is it recommended that it be repeated 3 weeks later, then 3 months (as it would be for worms)?

I (well, not me...but the dogs) had our most recent bout of giardia with Nemo...he was originally prescribed 10 days of double dose metronidazole...when he still had soft stools and problems gaining weight, our other vet told us to use the panacur...that seemed to do the trick!

But, yes, it's very hard to get rid of...with all the dogs we have, our vet has just recommended that we just go ahead and give them a 3-day dose of panacur every 6 months, then also do a fecal every 6 months...so far, so good in doing that...


For Giardia, I typically do not repeat in 3 weeks and 3 months, as I would if it were whipworms. I do, however, have the clients check frequent stool samples, just as your vet has done. :wink:

If I don't get resolution with Panacur, I will often do another course with something else in addition to the Panacur (fenbendazole, metronidazole, or event Drontal Plus is indicated). I will say, however, that the talk I went to recently said that if you have an ELISA (+) dog with no symptoms, and multiple courses of medication, then you probably do not need to treat the aymptomatic dog even with the ELISA being +. :mrgreen: If, however, you have a dog that continues to have diarrhea, and has a negative fecal and Giardia ELISA, then you need to be looking for other metabolic causes and/or other parasite infections that are not routinely caught on routine testing. >(
We have a Mastiff... does that count??? :)
http://www.teamblabador.com

Akisa & Team Blabador
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Postby katiek0417 » April 7th, 2009, 8:57 pm

Our next step with Nemo would've been testing for EPI...we had to do that with Cy (it came back negative) b/c we couldn't figure out the problem with him!

Thank you so much for all the information, though! Giardia is definitely one of the "mysteries" to me...and I understand so little about it - so your explanation (in layman's terms) was much appreciated!!!! :mrgreen:
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
Sacha CGC - Dumb Lab
Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
Nemo - Dual-Purpose Narcotics
Cy TC, PSA 1, PSA 2, 2009 PSA Level 3 National Champion
Axo - Psycho Puppy
Rocky - RIP My Baby Boy
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Postby Jenny » April 8th, 2009, 7:47 pm

What a wealth of info.. thank you!
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