Mange

by **Jenny** » March 21st, 2009, 11:16 am

yes, what blabs said!

by **BrindleLuv** » March 21st, 2009, 4:16 pm

i appreciate the info, all the help. I'm on the way up to Mack's vet as we speak, an angel from above has blessed us nicely.

I previously had a skin scrap on when he had a few spots on his face, the diagnosis came back as "flea allergy dermatitis".

GOOD day to all, God Bless

by **Marinepits** » March 21st, 2009, 5:10 pm

Sometimes it takes several scrapes to actually find the mites that cause demodex.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

by **BrindleLuv** » March 21st, 2009, 5:57 pm

I spoke with the tech, she looked at it closely and says that it is a flea allergy. That is why there are isolated pimples, she gave him a dose of advantage and said to get some oatmeal shampoo, for the dryness and to drop the use of the borax/h20/h202 mix.
They where booked for today, so the vet couldn't see me, witch i think she could of spared a minute of her time, with a case like this.
She also stated that if what she says doesn't work in the next 2 weeks, to bring him back in and they will wave the OV fee, and scraping fee.

I feel so bad for the little guy. I have no one to blame but my self, makes me look and feel like S***

Hair has seemed to grow back in the last week, tho.

This is the pic from his last scraping back in oct.

by **Marinepits** » March 21st, 2009, 6:20 pm

Well, it's too bad the vet couldn't see you. :neutral:

I hope the poor guy gets some relief with the Advantage and the shampoo. Keep us updated!

by **BrindleLuv** » March 21st, 2009, 6:32 pm

Are there any objections to what she said?

Who truly knows how educated she is. I'm going to take him into another vet either tomorrow if any are open or monday, to further back her word.
I ahve received many different suggestions to what this could be.

If it was an allergy, what is causing the hair to fall out, other than him chewing and bitting?

by **Malli** » March 21st, 2009, 10:32 pm

to me, it looks like it could be a wicked staph infection. But I'm no vet.

Did they give you antibiotics?
I will take at least a week to see any improvement, and it may take longer then that.

Make sure to use the shampoo as directed and rinse rinse rinse! Also try to wash all bedding the dog has contact with. If it is a Flea allergy, even the flea feces left over could literally cause a reaction, or even as little as ONE flea bite.

by **Marinepits** » March 22nd, 2009, 8:52 am

BrindleLuv wrote:Are there any objections to what she said?

It's hard to object when none of us have actually examined the dog in person. :wink:

Personally, I would get a second opinion by a vet, not a tech (sorry, techs on here!) and get a skin scraping done. The vet will either confirm what the tech thinks it may be, or come up with a different diagnosis.

As others have said, if that's a staph bacterial infection and it's not brought under control by antibiotics, it's likely to become systemic -- meaning that it will enter the body's organs and bloodstream and become VERY difficult to treat.

by **BrindleLuv** » March 23rd, 2009, 3:22 pm

how many x's a week should i bathe him with it? twice?

by **Marinepits** » March 23rd, 2009, 3:49 pm

Which one did you get (brand-wise) and how often does it say to bathe?

by **BrindleLuv** » March 23rd, 2009, 4:35 pm

Pro-pet, or pet-pro. says weekly, should i follow that or will an extra bath a week help any?

by **Marinepits** » March 23rd, 2009, 4:39 pm

Given how his skin looks, I would try every other day and see how his skin looks after a few days.

Be gentle and don't scrub too hard because that will further irritate his skin.

by **call2arms** » March 23rd, 2009, 4:57 pm

Are we sure he even has fleas?? To see you can put him over a white paper and ruff his hair against the way it grows, see if there are tiny specks of dirt that fall off, then spray them with water and see if the water becomes pink-reddish... If so, it's dried blood = flea poop.

I think it might be a good idea to keep going with the advantage for a few months to get rid of all the stages of the flea cycle... Also toroughly vaccum everywhere and wash (in HOT water) everything you possibly can that Mack has been in contact with - that way you'll get rid of the eggs and larvae in the environment so he doesn't get fleas again in a couple month. To make sure you kill everything, there's also sprays you can use after cleaning up, but those are toxic to cats so not to use if you have one at home...

Oatmeal shampoo sounds nice, but if there's pimples and crusts I'd definitely go see another vet (just so Mack can actually be assessed since the vets didn't have time), and make sure he doesn't need antibiotics.

Good luck and keep us updated!

by **Dog_Shrink** » March 23rd, 2009, 5:21 pm

That doesn't look like JUST mange to me. My boston had mange and it does not start to present on the back. First is head front legs then trunk so if this fella doesn't have all those areas affected I would look into a skin infection but also do the scraping to make certain it isn't mange. Also you can treat mange with Ivermectin injectable for cattle. You drop it on the shoulders like a spot on treatment. It kills all kinds of mites, treats fungal infections, ear mites, lice and all those other little nasties. I get it at Tractor Supply for $40 bucks for the large bottle that should last you over a year. P.S. It can also be used as your monthly heart guard as well. Read the label on the heart guard... active ingredient... ivermectin. I give one drop per 10 pounds of body weight and have never had any problems. Things that vets don't tell you... I could write a book

Link to tractor supply and Ivermectin: http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay_10551_10001_43422_-1______?rFlag=true&cFlag=1

by **Marinepits** » March 23rd, 2009, 5:36 pm

Dog_Shrink wrote:That doesn't look like JUST mange to me. My boston had mange and it does not start to present on the back. First is head front legs then trunk.....

This isn't necessarily true -- I have seen many cases of mange come in with just a spot here and there on the body. Saw a wonker of a case that started on the shoulder and neck not too long ago.

The dog discussed in this thread did have some spots on its face scraped a while ago and it was negative for mange. My thought is the mites just weren't found at that time, but now the mange has spread. But again, the dog really needs to be checked by a vet.

Things that vets don't tell you... I could write a book

Just so you know, blabsforbullies (aka Dr Blabs) is a vet and she's very forthcoming with information. :wink:

Be VERY careful using ivermectin -- it comes in many different strengths. You MUST get the correct dosage for it to be effective and not harmful and possibly deadly if overdosed.

by **Dog_Shrink** » March 23rd, 2009, 5:41 pm

Yes we are being very careful with the ivermectin. We've been using it for over a year now with no ill effects. We did a ton of reaserch and also talked to several professionals on the matter. It's good to know there is a vet here willing to share info. Unfortunately I have met too many that only want to give info for paid...Thanks Blabs

by **TheRedQueen** » March 23rd, 2009, 5:43 pm

[quote="MarinepitsBe VERY careful using ivermectin -- it comes in many different strengths. You MUST get the correct dosage for it to be effective and not harmful and possibly deadly if overdosed.[/quote]

and Ivermectin can be very dangerous to certain breeds of dogs such as collies, Aussies, shelties, etc. Always best to check with your vet first... :shock:

by **blabsforbullies** » March 23rd, 2009, 9:03 pm

As for the distribution of lesions, Demodex can be anywhere and everywhere. And it usually is! :shock:

Sarcoptes can have a pattern of distribution (ear tips, elbows, back of legs), but not always. I would never rule out a case based on where the lesions originated from. :neutral:

In my patients, I have seen it be in places I would have never suspected. Some infections just don't read the book, I'm sorry to say! :nono:

Also worth noting, Demodex is usually treated with daily doses of oral ivermectin (it is an off labeled use and at a dose that is much higher that that of Heartgard, so you absolutely do not want to use it unless directed by a veterinarian :wink:

) and Sarcoptes is usually treated with injections under the skin once every 2 weeks (also at a much higher dose than what is found in Heartgard). I had an owner who tried to treat Demodex topically, and the dog's infection ended up becoming resistant to ivermectin. :sad2:

That only left medications like Interceptor, and that is ridiculously costly. :dollar:

No matter what you decide to do, please do not start ivermectin without being sure that your dog is negative for heartworms. :twocents:

What can happen is that if there is a mature heartworm infection that is unapparent (no outward signs like coughing, exercise intolerance, etc), and you start giving invermectin in any form, it can kill some of the worms and cause a clot to form. It can be deadly. It is rare, but it has happened. :cry1:

Anyway, I would bathe the dog in the shampoo 3-4 times per week for 2-3 weeks. If you aren't seeing an improvement or at least a step in the right direction in about 10 days, I'd have that appointment made. :wink3:

I hope everything works out! :thumbsup:

Let us know how it goes! :bananaDance:

by **Dog_Shrink** » March 23rd, 2009, 11:08 pm

Thanks for the imput Blabs. It's nice to hear it from the horse's mouth.

by **BrindleLuv** » March 24th, 2009, 12:04 am

Thanks for all the imput! They should charge for this site! today was his first bath, wait till thursday for the 2nd.
Would BagBalm be a good thing to use to help heal the skin?

Mange

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