Seppel is at the vet...

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby blabsforbullies » February 11th, 2009, 9:15 pm

Marinepits wrote:You're gonna make Dr Blabs smack me in the head. :shock:


I wouldn't do that......................................................in public. :bitchSlap:
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Postby amazincc » February 11th, 2009, 9:16 pm

Nah... she loves you and your crew too much for that. :)

I just re-read my posts, and apparently I have already made up my mind - no Pred tonight, blood work and urinalysis first thing in the morning. Possibly looking for a new vet as well, since Dr. Blabs is otherwise occupied. :nono:
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Postby amazincc » February 11th, 2009, 9:20 pm

blabsforbullies wrote:I would seriously doubt a kidney problem, as he looks really good otherwise. :mrgreen: By the time that the bad breath kicks in, the kidneys are usually pretty far advanced into failure, and you would have seen other signs (weight loss, decreased appetite, chronic lethargy, etc). :wink:

Having said that, I generally recommend doing a CBC/Full Chemistry Panel/UA before starting any type of immunosuppressive treatment. If there were underlying disease there (be it kidneys, liver, diabetes, urinary tract infection ,etc), steroids can make that worse (but since he is on AB's already, a UTI would be unlikely). If he is feeling better, and seems less painful, eating, drinking, etc, I'd say wait on the steroids if you can and have some further testing done. If he weren't better, I would have suggested starting them. :neutral:

It is possible that he is drinking (hence urinating more) due to stress or they may have given him fluids while he was sedated? :| We do IV fluids on any animal that is heavily sedated or under anethesia. Just a thought..... 8)


No IV fluids... and he doesn't seem stressed, but I guess it's possible. He sheds like crazy though. I pet him and I have a handful of fur in my hand. :shock:

It's probably all in my head. My little paranoia is very annoying, even to myself.
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Postby call2arms » February 12th, 2009, 12:02 am

Hey, if I were you I'd be the same. Paranoid is a lot better than casual about the whole thing, and some people would be!!!
You just want what's best for Sep, and searching on the internet and your vet's opinion, and our opinion, it's a lot to take in and think about and it does gets mixy-matchy in the brain...
Either way, I'm glad he's doing better!

Know that Seppel has been mentioned in two of my classes this week, he's trotting in my brain constantly!
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Postby madremissy » February 12th, 2009, 12:55 am

I am glad to hear that Seppel is feeling better. :)
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Postby Malli » February 12th, 2009, 4:09 am

maybe the tramadol is causing the accidents? :|

I've occaisionally seen it cause narcotized or altered behavior in pets at work...
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Postby SisMorphine » February 12th, 2009, 9:27 am

I also think that it could be the change in diet. With the canned and the dry that he's gotten. I know with my dogs they barely drink any water, but when eating kibble they drink loads. And at first they will actually over drink the water and vomit it back up, but maybe Seppel is just over drinking and leaking it out instead. :|

And my vote is that smelly pee = dog balls ;)
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Postby mnp13 » February 12th, 2009, 11:02 am

Smelly pee definately goes with dog balls. Riggs' pee always smells somewhat skunky, and if he's a little dehydrated it's really skunky. Ruby and Connor's pee just smells like pee. :|

Riggs had all sorts of intestional fun last year when he got sick. It only went away when we switched back to raw. I'm going to second the opinion that some of this may be a side affect of all the food changes.
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Postby Jenn » February 12th, 2009, 12:11 pm

Glad Seppel is slowly on the mend, hope he is back to normal ASAP.
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Postby Miakoda » February 12th, 2009, 1:19 pm

amazincc wrote:If anyone has dealt with this, or knows anything about it... I'd appreciate any and all input/info/advise.

I'm still glad I ended up with him, because I don't think he would've gotten the best medical care from his former owners.
But, for cryin' out loud... it breaks my heart.


I'm sorry to hear about your dog. :(

Sis asked me to come here and talk to you because I too had a dog dianosed with MM.

For those that don't know, myositis is a condition basically in which the body produces anitbodies against it's own muscle fibers thus destroying those muscle fibers beyond repair. It is debilitating and extremely painful.

My dog, Ripken, was never a healthy dog from the get-go. He had loose stool problems, his immune system couldn't fight off coccidia (which he came to me with), he was sickened by a virus that attacked his red blood cells, and then he started with the same symptoms as your dog did. And in the same way, it was like something that just occurred one day with no warning.

I remember Ripken being lethargic, but one day he just couldn't open his mouth. He couldn't close it all the way either. He was very sore/painful to the touch and he too tried to hide his head to avoid anyone touching him. I took him back to my friend, and vet, who told me right off the bat that she suspected MM. We did x-rays to make sure it wasn't anything else and we also did bloodwork that was sent off to the lab at LSU's Vet School. His bloodwork came back positive for MM and the ANA came back positive for Lupus (he was/is the youngest dog ever to be pos for Lupus there).

I can't even begin to explain how awful it was. I can't begin to tell you how my heart felt it was being ripped from my chest everytime he whined or yelped just trying to do something such as take a drink of water. To see the expression on his face.....the see those vibrant eyes lose their spark.......it tears me up inside.

We started Ripken on steroid therapy immediately and also Rimadyl. Know one knew how much time he had left with us. It could've been 2 weeks or 2 years according to the vets. We got 2 months.

In those 2 months Ripken had his ups and downs and good days and bad days. He had his days where he had much more jaw movement and was able to eat and drink well and was quite playful. He loved chasing down a bouncy kong. But he also had his bad days. On those days he was unable to eat or drink and I had to feed/water him via syringe. He wouldn't even move.

As the days and weeks went by, the steroids began to have a negative effect on an already comprised and weakened immune system. He began having blood in his stool and further tests showed the beginnings of ulcers in the stomach as a result of the Prednisone usage and dosage. We would've treated it, but sadly in Ripken's case his MM became a general form of myositis and it was slowly working it's way back/down his body. At the end of 2 months, his jaw was almost permanently fused in a single position with little movement and he was already showing the effects of muscle breakdown in his front legs. He could barely move.

When he looked at me one day I knew that was it. He was telling me it was time to go. He would've kept on fighting had I asked him to, I'm sure of it. That little dog was all heart. But it wasn't fair. He was in pain. He was suffering. And his bad days were outnumbering his good days. Not to mention he was battling a bigger disease, Lupus, that causes a wide variety of other issues.

I put him down a few days before his 1st birthday. He didn't even make it to be a year old. But in that short amount of time he taught me more about living for the moment and how to just be happy and enjoy the little things. He taught me more in that time than many of my dogs have taught me in their much longer lifetimes.

I'm sorry to go on, but this is an issue that really gets to me. If you have any questions, feel free to ask me. I'll do what I can to help you help your dog. One thing to keep in mind is that autoimmune disorders/deficiencies tend to go hand-in-hand with each other. Often times dogs with one condition can secretly be harboring another.

I wish you and your dog the best. :)
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Postby Malli » February 12th, 2009, 3:33 pm

I'd just like to point out that Rimadyl is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory(Rimadyl, Metacam, Deramaxx, Previcox, etc, etc) and generally those are SEVERELY contraindicated with steroids.

I'm not sure if this is a special exception, since I'm not familiar with this type of disorder at all and have never nursed a patient with it. :|
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Postby blabsforbullies » February 12th, 2009, 4:28 pm

Agreed Malli! I thought the same thing. For me it is one or the other, but never both. Tramadol is different. It is a pure pain reliever, so it is safe to give with one or the other.

Also, having lupus really conplicates things. So the prognosis, as mentioned above, changes too.

No matter what, it's nice to have someone to talk to! It's nice people care enough to share!
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Postby amazincc » February 12th, 2009, 4:50 pm

Ugh, Miakoda... I'm so sorry about Ripken. :sad2: :cry: :(

I don't think Sepp is that bad yet. If, indeed, our vets dx is right. We will get the results from the other lab on Wednesday.
I took the little monster in for a complete work-up this morning... blood, urine, stool sample... such fun. :rolleyes2: lol
We were lucky to be seen by the vet who doesn't condemn RAW! Her and I had a long conversation, and she also doesn't think that his foul breath is caused by his diet. And, omg, was it BAD this morning. :puke:

Anyway... he does have a UTI, which the Clavamox should take care of. She agrees that all the changes in his diet and the stress/pain could contribute to his "accidents", and she definitely thinks the stinky pee is also the result of him not being neutered yet. :confetti: :bounce:
Sepp was not in pain this morning (no pain pill!), and he let her play around w/his mouth and ears.
I've decided to wait for the other lab results to confirm the MMM before starting him on the steroids. He has his neuter appointment for next Thursday. Hopefully he'll be feeling okay until then, because I know that him being on steroids at the time of his neuter could slow the healing process quite a bit.
Of course, if he has another flare-up between now and then, I will obviously rethink that decision.

All the other test results should be back early next week... she pretty much tested him for everything she could think of this morning that would/could cause him to have all the symptoms that I described to her. And she got a whiff of the breath first-hand... :lol3:

She agreed to do his neuter. She was able to palpate him and "found" the missing testicle. :D

I am supposed to either keep him on Primal and Orijen, or I can go back to feeding him regular RAW for breakfast as long as there are no noticable bone splinters and sharp pieces. Yep, I'm going to have to invest in a powerful meat grinder.

All in all - I LIKE this vet. I had her name put on Sepps chart as his primary caregiver, and we won't be seeing the other two unless it's an absolute emergency. :)
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Postby Pit♥bull » February 12th, 2009, 4:56 pm

That's GREATnews Christine :)

Still sending you and your boy :goodthoughts:
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Postby Hundilein » February 12th, 2009, 5:18 pm

What wonderful news! I'm so glad to hear that Seppel is feeling better. Give him a squeeze from me and the black and tan girls.
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Postby airwalk » February 12th, 2009, 5:42 pm

Yay Seppel is feeling better, that is very good news.
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Postby CinderDee » February 12th, 2009, 6:16 pm

Great news! :dance:
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Postby hugapitbull » February 12th, 2009, 7:18 pm

I'm glad he's feeling better, but even more happy you found a vet that is on the same page with you. It is pretty miserable to deal with a vet you can't agree with :nono:
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Postby TheRedQueen » February 12th, 2009, 7:22 pm

Yea for good news...and I'm happy to hear about the new vet. What a relief! 8)
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Postby Miakoda » February 13th, 2009, 12:32 am

I'm glad to hear he's doing better. :)

And yes, Rimadyl was contraindicated. Howevever, in circumstances such as Ripken's where he was/we were living for the day, it became a matter of keeping him comfortable. At that point we were looking for quality of life versus length of life and we all knew he was own borrowed time. And the Rimadyl was only given on those days where he exhibited severe pain and discomfort.

For those that don't understand, the combination of NSAIDs and Predisone can cause ulcerations along the GI tract. NSAIDs alone can also cause them as can Prednisone alone, but when used in conjuction with each other, the risk is greatly heightened.

And Ripken did indeed end up with ulcers in his stomach. And that was when we knew it was time to let him go. He had lived 2 months and had many great days and expieriences in that time. I have no regrets giving him 2 months of fun and love versus 4 months of mostly pain and discomfort.

In my case, I had to learn which battles I wanted to fight and which ones I did not. It's never an easy choice.
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