Very interesting...

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby Jenn » April 27th, 2006, 3:55 pm

I'm going to have to convince myself that raw isn't all that difficult to accomplish!! :oops: I really love this site, and it is chalked FULL of really good information, not to mention easy and explanatory for those of us (ME) that need things explained, or sometimes simplified.

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/

So, anyway.. I ran across this today in one of my million of readings. Got me interested as to which dogfoods actually contain this ingredient, that can lead to damage and death in humans.
(sorry messed up the links) this is what I was referring to... (Menadione)

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=menadione

Here you can see that some companies have removed this product from their list of ingredients.
http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

Just thought I'd share, or some may want to check. You can find ingredients of products under the "product list" section under dry dog foods.
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Postby SisMorphine » April 27th, 2006, 4:55 pm

Oooooh! I can't wait to fully look through those links when I get home tonight. Very cool, thanks for posting!!
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Postby cheekymunkee » April 27th, 2006, 4:56 pm

I'm going to have to convince myself that raw isn't all that difficult to accomplish!!


It's NOT!!!!! Believe me, if it were I would not be doing it. I am the Queen of Laze. :wink: Go buy chicken quarters & give one to your dog, there ya fed raw. See how easy that was? :)
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Postby SisMorphine » April 27th, 2006, 5:02 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:Go buy chicken quarters & give one to your dog, there ya fed raw. See how easy that was? :)

HEY!! Who gave you my recipe? I thought I had it trademarked . . .
:wink:
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Postby Jenn » April 27th, 2006, 6:38 pm

Suppose I just feel it can't be that easy, and I know it's not. ;) Simple enough to throw them some chicken, but they can't be getting all they need in just chicken. I just worry about the right balance of meat, and everything else. About them getting the proper nutrients they need, and about them being healthy, yet not overweight. (Which Ben really is) :oops:

Welcome for the link though, I've read that site I can't tell you how many times, and I sign up for the updates. There is soooo much information it can be quite overwhelming, so I read it at work when I'm in the mood. Once my head starts to hurt, I quit. ;) I was worried about that ingredient being in the food I feed. (Natural Balance) Though it appears they have decided to change the ingredients. I believe I read it in the Wellness ingredients, as well as a few popular others. (Though don't recall exactly, I read so many)
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Postby Purple » April 27th, 2006, 6:42 pm

Jenn, I am having the same issue, I just think feeding raw is complicated. I think my Dexter needs to go raw, as I believe he is having some sort of allergy issues to his food. After he eats, he rubs his face on anything and everything.
Someone in another forum gave me some links to start me off, I will go get them and post 'em up here.
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Postby Purple » April 27th, 2006, 6:51 pm

Here are the links I was given:

http://www.ucarerescue.net/viewtopic.php?t=1099

And a slightly more detailed "how much to feed"
http://www.ucarerescue.net/viewtopic.php?t=1086

Here is Dr Bilinghurst's BARF page: http://www.barfworld.com/
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Postby cheekymunkee » April 27th, 2006, 7:24 pm

Purple wrote:Here are the links I was given:

http://www.ucarerescue.net/viewtopic.php?t=1099

And a slightly more detailed "how much to feed"
http://www.ucarerescue.net/viewtopic.php?t=1086

Here is Dr Bilinghurst's BARF page: http://www.barfworld.com/


She's the one who taught me! She told me basically "hand your dog a chicken leg". I did & never looked back. I just recently started supplementing again, 1 t. of kelp, one garlic clove, 1 t of brewer's years & 1 t of DE daily. Cottage cheese for Miss Skinney Justice, yogurt for all of them a couple times a week, raw eggs for all, organ meat a couple times a week, canned mackeral once a week. I get them olive oil occasionally. I vary meats, turkey, chicken ( for all but Munkee), pork, beef. Whatever I find on sale. Jenn, do you have a "Super Saver" grocery near you? They took over some of the Albertson's stores here. I find GREAT deals on meat for them there.

You could also follow this guys recipes. :wink: He's got a GREAT site.

http://www.rawfeddogs.net/Recipes.php
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 27th, 2006, 8:00 pm

JennKBM wrote:I'm going to have to convince myself that raw isn't all that difficult to accomplish!!


I'm SOOOOO right there with you! I joined a raw-feeding forum on yahoo and it's got tons of great info. I don't know why I'm so nervous about starting - I guess 'cause it's just such a big change from kibble. :|

I too am worried about how much, what type, etc. I've looked at all the links and have them all bookmarked, now it's just a matter of DOING IT. So we should all be each other's cheerleaders to go RAW!!!! :cheer:
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Postby Purple » April 27th, 2006, 8:12 pm

I have my support started on another forum, it's just about me taking the jump!!
Cheeky, I think she told me to talk to you, too, for support!
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Postby cheekymunkee » April 27th, 2006, 8:20 pm

We'll all hold hands. Now JUMP!!!

It took me a while to take the plunge because I also thought it was too hard & I'd screw it up. what made me do it was illness. I had been sick, was out of dog food & had NO money. I did have a freezer full of chicken quarters I had gotten on sale. So, I thawed them out & decided I'd try it for a week until I got paid & could buy their dog food. I still haven't bought it a year later
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Postby Jenn » April 27th, 2006, 11:20 pm

Thanks for the links! I'll read through them tomorrow while I'm at "work". lol I can't stand that I'm so scared of something that is so called "so simple", but I worry more and more about not doing it right. Though I'm worrying more and more about what is in their dog food too. It's nice to know I'm not the only one that has fear of "raw" ;).. Guess we'll all have to just jump in and try it out! Who's first??

not me :P
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Postby turtle » April 27th, 2006, 11:27 pm

Ohh, that's an interesting site on dog foods! Thanks for posting it. I'll have lots of reading to do...

As to raw feeding, you can always start slow and feed half raw and half kibble for awhile and see how it goes. I've been feeding this way for about 2 years now and my dog is doing great. She used to get itchy ears and that is pretty much gone now.

I started giving her a chicken wing for breakfast about 3 times a week. I wanted to be sure that she chewed it well and did not gulp it down whole. I graduated to chicken quarters but found my dog did better with those if I cut them in half, so she gets either a leg or a thigh for her raw meal.

I wanted to keep it simple. It seemed the more I read, the more confused I was! Since my dog was doing well with raw breakfasts 3 or 4 times a week, I went to feeding raw every morning and kibble at night.

And I even found that the raw is pretty cheap! It is less per pound than the Timberwolf kibble I buy. I can often get chicken quarters for as low as 17 cents a pound. (hubby looks longingly at them and says "for the dog???" LOL). I also buy short dated meats from my local grocery store and get good deals on veal necks, lamb necks, and beef roasts. I don't spend over $1.00 a pound for the raw and the TW is about $1.50 a pound.

Having a separate freezer helps a lot. That way I can stock up on those 17 cent chicken quarters. We also hunt so she gets deer meat and bones and the freezer holds a lot of that too. Plus ice cream for the humans!

I decided to stay with feeding half raw and half kibble for several reasons. My dog does great on this diet; it's pretty simple; if I travel, I can take kibble and feed her that since she is used to it; and I also feel that the TW kibble helps insure that she gets a complete diet. I do add the supplements Debby listed above, and also apple cider vinegar. My dog has never looked better!
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Postby Jenn » April 27th, 2006, 11:44 pm

I wanted to keep it simple. It seemed the more I read, the more confused I was!


That describes me COMPLETELY!! I think I'm putting just way too much though into it? I'm going to try this, I feel so compelled to at least give it a shot for a few months. (I think I can, I think I can)

I have no clue about the different meats, and I've never looked at the price or noticed when something was that much cheaper. :| Then again, I'm horrible and hate to shop for groceries. My daughter and I go in get what we need for supper, then go home and cook it. All I have is one normal grocery store in a very small town "Market Basket". I suppose I'll have to ask someone to show me the ropes in the meat dept. Most of the stuff y'all speak of I have no clue what it even is. :oops: (short dated meats, lamb necks, veal necks, kelp, yeast, DE, canned mackeral, organ meat :| )
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Postby turtle » April 28th, 2006, 12:09 am

JennKBM wrote:
I wanted to keep it simple. It seemed the more I read, the more confused I was!


That describes me COMPLETELY!! I think I'm putting just way too much though into it? I'm going to try this, I feel so compelled to at least give it a shot for a few months. (I think I can, I think I can)

I have no clue about the different meats, and I've never looked at the price or noticed when something was that much cheaper. :| Then again, I'm horrible and hate to shop for groceries. My daughter and I go in get what we need for supper, then go home and cook it. All I have is one normal grocery store in a very small town "Market Basket". I suppose I'll have to ask someone to show me the ropes in the meat dept. Most of the stuff y'all speak of I have no clue what it even is. :oops: (short dated meats, lamb necks, veal necks, kelp, yeast, DE, canned mackeral, organ meat :| )


Oh yes, I know what you mean! My husband is the cook but I do most of the shopping. I just started looking at all the cheap meats and watching the sale ads. I did this for a couple weeks before I started trying my dog on raw.

And I started with chicken wings since they are small and the bones are small so they were easy to chew. You do want to make sure your dogs chew the raw meaty bones carefully, many folks will hold the leg or wing so that they have to chew it slowly.

I only have one dog so I don't have to worry about competition at meal times but I think that can be easily solved by feeding in their crates. I feed my dog her raw meal outside which means I don't have any raw meat clean up. LOL she eats faster in the rain!

I've been really impressed with the improvement in my dog even just feeding half raw. Her coat is very shiny, she is solid muscle, she is lean, and also her poop is smaller, too. She enjoys her food, too. The only thing I have learned to watch for is not to give her raw lamb 2 days in a row! I can give it to her once a week and she is fine but lamb is very rich and you can get some... ahhh.. stinky results...
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Postby SisMorphine » April 28th, 2006, 12:12 am

I went "slow" at first with Wally. I fed him Nature's Variety pre-packaged raw. It was MAD expensive, but I could see an improvement in his health and coat almost imediately. It took me a looooooooong while to graduate to feeding homemade raw. I tried it once and Wally ended up puking and having diarrhea, but now that I look at it I think he had something else going on.

After his dental a month and a half ago I had a guy on a Great Dane board basically say "stop being a pussy, throw him a chicken quarter". So I started a week and a half after his dental (17 teeth taken out) and he's been going strong since!! He gets a chicken quarter, duck, whatever, in the AM and then at night he gets a tiny bit of ground whatever and I mix in fix oil, shark cartilage, kelp (the only veggie Wally will eat), pumpkin, cottage cheese, and some organs of some sort. Then to top it off he gets something that takes a little more work to eat, like a huge piece of heart or a beef round with a lot of bone.

Even though he was doing pretty well on the pre-made raw, he is doing AMAZINGLY on the homemade raw. He had a naked neck before, due to the hard plastic racing collars. I just noticed the other day that not only has the hair finally grown back on his neck (he's been off the track for about 2 years now) but he is also actually starting to grow peach fuzz on his naked belly!!!

I will stick by my raw diet and will continue to learn more and more.

Halo will be switched in about 2 weeks (once I finally get paid again . . . damn time off in between jobs). I can't wait to see his change!!!
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Postby Jenn » April 28th, 2006, 12:19 am

That's such a huge help and a relief, glad what I'm feeling is somewhat "normal". ;)
I was also thinking that they'd have to eat outside, it's just not possible for them to eat inside. They'd either be eating on the wood floors, or in the kitchen which is freaking carpet and that would definitely not work! Now all I have to do is educate myself on the different meats, and figure out what all those other words are. What the heck is Tripe?
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Postby turtle » April 28th, 2006, 12:45 am

I've not fed tripe but I know if you do feed it, the one you want to get is "green tripe". It's the natural unprocessed one with the nutrients in it. But it stinks... Basically it's cow stomach.

Here's a few links about it and there is a ton of info if you search goggle for "green tripe":

http://www.truecarnivores.com/greentripe.shtml

http://www.greentripe.com/

I see there is canned green tripe available, has anyone here tried it? (For your dogs... not you personally!)
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 28th, 2006, 7:47 am

I have to go grocery shopping this weekend, and since Inara is almost out of kibble, I think I'm going to break down and buy some plain chicken breasts and start her on those. So holy hell - I THINK I'M GOIN' RAW THIS WEEKEND!!! :afro:


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Postby dogcrazyjen » April 28th, 2006, 9:12 am

I make a mix once a week. I freeze half and leave half in the fridge, and half way through the week defrost the second. The mix has ground meat, liver, gizzards, a grated green leafy veggie (1 head broccoli or 1 pk spinach) and 1 large grated carrot, as well as ground flax, mashed garlic, and eggs. You could make several weeks worth of mix at once. Frozen flax seed retains it's nutrients pretty well.

One meal they get ground, the other a piece of boned meat. I hack up the pieces of meat if necessary with a small 'kitchen' axe (one whole leg quarter or back is enough for 2 of my dogs)
Or I count out several chicken necks each. I give them marrow bones a few times a week, 1/2 inch slices of leg bone.

It is not as easy as kibble. You need to wash bowls more often, and should wipe floors or crates where they eat every day. Prep time is longer, and they need more time to eat when given whole pieces of boned meat. I found my kids and husband will not feed dogs without complaining, and I have to label everything if I leave so they know who gets what and in what amounts. I will often just have them feed ground every meal, with a labeled measuring cup so they give the right amounts to the right dogs.

However it is not mind numbingly difficult either. A little thought and organization goes a long way, and trust me, those are not my strong points!

Traveling is a little more difficult, but if you buy a nice soft sided cooler and pack things in tupperware it is not so bad. Invest in a cheap 9x13 pan to put in the fridge to catch blood from all the meat packages. Blood pooling in the fridge was really gross until I figured that out.

I feed in different rooms with a locked door or crate between to keep the slower eating dogs from being harrassed by the faster ones. The slower dogs are less likely to carry the food off to a secluded corner if they know no one will come by until they are totally done.

I love feeding raw. The poops are so small and hard that clean up is a snap. The dogs look awesome, and have way more energy.
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