When to Neuter for best physique??? Anyone have any pics?

Food, Fitness and how to keep them healthy.

Postby Mosesman » November 20th, 2007, 1:23 am

Hi all, I have a 6 month old pit bull, and I was just wondering if neutering too early can cause the dog to not grow into his full potential. Moses is an American Pit bull, maybe a bit of Am staff, but he will not be a really large pit, he will stay the normal size I think. He is 55lbs right now. Is that normal for an AMPBT???? I just love the muscular and broad features of the bull dog breeds, especially pit bulls, of course ALL OF US DO, and its a part of why we love the breed so much. He also has an incredible personality, and I'm a little worried about that changing too. If anyone has any personal information, or if they too have gone though this, Id really appreciate it. Also, if any has any PICS of their awesome Pits that have been neutered, please post them, Id love to see them!!!!! THANKS!!!
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Postby Malli » November 20th, 2007, 5:09 am

The only thing that will be altered personality-wise is perhaps your dog's level of aggression, which is a good thing. All in all the breed is pre-disposed to being burly, and I personally am doubtful that neutering alters physique much, if any.
Neutering your dog can also decrease his risk of developing cancer later on in his life :thumbsup:
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Postby mnp13 » November 20th, 2007, 10:02 am

Supposedly neutering before they are done growing can cause male dogs to be a little more "leggy" because testosterone triggers the growth plates to close. However, waiting 18 months may allow other behaviors to develop, like marking, that come with sexual maturity. There is no guarentee that neutering will lower or prevent dog aggression, reduce marking, reduce territorial-ness, but many people have experienced that. However, if those habits start they can be very difficult to break.

If he's 55 pounds at 6 months he's probably going to be pretty big. He still has some height to go and will get "wider" as well. In my opinion he's at the top end of the standard now; though that's not a big deal since you're not planning to show him.

There are tons and tons of pictures in the gallery section and the vast majority of members dogs are spayed/neutered.
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Postby luvmypitties » November 20th, 2007, 12:02 pm

I have 2 male dogs. One was a rescue who we didnt get til he was 7 years old. We neutered him then. Nothing has really changed about him and I have had him for about 2 almost 3 years now. The other I got as a puppy and had neutered at 7 months old I believe. He is still a muscular dog and grew just fine, not leggy or anything but he is also a working type dog. He is always on the go and we go for regualr walks, he is kind of training for PSA and we keep his weight regular. I am sure you can do a search for my puppy's name, Roscoe and find tons of picture of him!
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Postby katiek0417 » November 20th, 2007, 12:08 pm

I'm not so sure about pitties, but I have seen several dogs where neutering did NOTHING for behavior. If they were jerks before, they were jerks after...

Additionally, one thing I have noticed, if neutered too early, the heads don't fully develop (for example, I showed a dog last year in PSA, who had a pinhead, and Greg believes that it was because he was neutered so early in life)...
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Postby luvmypitties » November 20th, 2007, 12:15 pm

On November 20 2007, 11:08 AM, katiek0417 wrote:
Additionally, one thing I have noticed, if neutered too early, the heads don't fully develop (for example, I showed a dog last year in PSA, who had a pinhead, and Greg believes that it was because he was neutered so early in life)...


But then Roscoe's head is still too big for his body... I think it all depends on the dog. If you are a responsible person and keep your dog contained so it doesn't go around spreading it's seeds then wait til it is a year or until you see a problem that you feel you have to neuter him. I would ahve waited longer with Roscoe but he was beginning to be very dominant especially over me. Neutering has helped that a lot, along with training. I think it is all personal preference. I think your dog is past the stage where its going to look leggy and wierd looking thats usually at 5 months. But you have to keep up on activity as most altered dogs gain weight easily.
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Postby mnp13 » November 20th, 2007, 12:51 pm

A couple of articles that I found:
http://healthyasadog.com/early-spay-and ... ogs-health
Early Spay and Neuter does it effect dogs health
By Daniel Beatty, DVM
There is a pet overpopulation problem in the United States and one of the solutions proposed by the AVMA and the Association of Spay/Neuter Veterinarians is Early Spay/Neuter. You will be hearing a lot about Early Spay/Neuter in the coming years, it is an idea and a technique to spay or neuter your pet as early as 6 to 8 weeks. Yes I did say weeks, not months.

About 15 years ago there was a study done at the University of Illinois (hard to imagine it has been that long) in which the results of spaying or neutering your pet at an early age was actually beneficial as it was much less stressful on the patient and the patient recovered much more rapidly with less complications. It sounds like a great thing, especially when you consider spaying or neutering at that age will avoid any chance at all of unwanted pregnancies. This would have a major impact on unwanted healthy dogs ending up in shelters with the risk of being euthanized (put to sleep). There are some estimates that 250,000 dogs and cats are euthanized every month in shelters that is 3 million every year! Many of these dogs and cats come from unwanted pregnancies, mistakes by owners that did not have their dog/cat in to the vet soon enough, not realizing that many are able to reproduce at 6 months of age. This method of spaying/neutering would put a dent in this number.

So you would think that I am all for it, because on the surface of it, it looks like a great proposal and the majority of the veterinary community is all for it. So why am I hesitant, why am I not fully on board with this program? Because I am dangerous, I ask questions!

The study done at the U of I (my alma mater, GO ILLINI!) compared spaying and neutering of dogs and cats of ages 6 to 7 weeks to 6 to 7 months. And there were better results for the surgery itself for the younger age group and there were no significant differences in skeletal dimensions, body weight, physical maturity and many other items. The only difference was that in the younger group they had smaller external genitals, which is of no significance health wise. (BTW, since that time it has been shown that there is a small increase in risk of urinary incontinence in spaying at the younger age) However it got me thinking, the external genitals are smaller because there was never any sex hormones to increase their size. So is there anything else that the sex hormones control besides reproduction? The answer is yes, it helps with the closure of growth plates among other things.

Unfortunately the study done by the U of I can not shed any light on this subject as the growth plates are not closed at 6 to 7 months of age either. Most dogs growth plates close between 9 months and 18 months of age. We would need a study of early spay/neuter vs spaying and neutering after the growth plates have closed to determine if there is any clinical difference.

My guess would be there is a difference, but would it matter that much if your dog was slightly smaller or if the growth plates did not close solidly or completely. It probably doesn’t except for one group and that happens to be the group that I am most concerned with - athletic dogs. Dogs that participate in a sporting activities such as flyball, agility, hunting, dock diving, lure coursing, racing, etc. Many long time sporting people especially hunters claim that the dog changes, its instincts are different, and the competitive nature decreases after spaying/neutering, but does it have an effect on the muscular skeletal system as well? My current feeling is if you have a sporting dog whose main purpose is to perform a sporting activity I would wait till the growth plates are closed before spaying or neutering your dog. With this waiting comes two problems one is owner responsibility. The other is the increased risk of mammary cancer in females. However with the mammary cancer there are many other risk factors that have now been worked through including nutrition and over vaccination that could also be playing a part.

The owner responsibilty is the major problem. It is the problem which is where the argument is going to come. The purpose of early spay/neuter is prevention of unwanted puppies and kittens and owner responsibility would say to early spay and neuter. If you are not spaying or neutering precautions need to be taken to be sure that your dog is not breeding. Unfortunately mistakes occur, which is where the argument is going to come from the proponents of early spay/neuter, just as in human sex education with abstinence there are no mistakes. There claim is that even with the most responsible dog owner a mistake can happen and lead to unwanted puppies, so there is no reason to wait.

However, I say, if you have a dog that is not going to be particpating at high levels of competition, then early spay/neuter may be just fine until proven otherwise. If you are going to be competing at high levels you can wait until the growth plates have closed but the risk and the responsibility is on you to be sure no mistakes occur. The research is not there yet to prove if there truly is no deleterious effects in the long term on your competitive sporting dogs health by spaying and neutering early. For more information on early spay neuter check out - Project Spay/Neuter


http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
Early Spay-Neuter Considerations
for the Canine Athlete
One Veterinarian's Opinion
© 2005 Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP




Those of us with responsibility for the health of canine athletes need to continually read and evaluate new scientific studies to ensure that we are taking the most appropriate care of our performance dogs. This article provides evidence through a number of recent studies to suggest that veterinarians and owners working with canine athletes should revisit the standard protocol in which all dogs that are not intended for breeding are spayed and neutered at or before 6 months of age.
Orthopedic Considerations
A study by Salmeri et al in 1991 found that bitches spayed at 7 weeks grew significantly taller than those spayed at 7 months, who were taller than those not spayed (or presumably spayed after the growth plates had closed).(1) A study of 1444 Golden Retrievers performed in 1998 and 1999 also found bitches and dogs spayed and neutered at less than a year of age were significantly taller than those spayed or neutered at more than a year of age.(2) The sex hormones, by communicating with a number of other growth-related hormones, promote the closure of the growth plates at puberty (3), so the bones of dogs or bitches neutered or spayed before puberty continue to grow. Dogs that have been spayed or neutered well before puberty can frequently be identified by their longer limbs, lighter bone structure, narrow chests and narrow skulls. This abnormal growth frequently results in significant alterations in body proportions and particularly the lengths (and therefore weights) of certain bones relative to others. For example, if the femur has achieved its genetically determined normal length at 8 months when a dog gets spayed or neutered, but the tibia, which normally stops growing at 12 to 14 months of age continues to grow, then an abnormal angle may develop at the stifle. In addition, with the extra growth, the lower leg below the stifle likely becomes heavier (because it is longer), and may cause increased stresses on the cranial cruciate ligament. In addition, sex hormones are critical for achieving peak bone density.(4) These structural and physiological alterations may be the reason why at least one recent study showed that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of CCL rupture.(5) Another recent study showed that dogs spayed or neutered before 5 1/2 months had a significantly higher incidence of hip dysplasia than those spayed or neutered after 5 1/2 months of age, although it should be noted that in this study there were no standard criteria for the diagnosis of hip dysplasia.(6) Nonetheless, breeders of purebred dogs should be cognizant of these studies and should consider whether or not pups they bred were spayed or neutered when considering breeding decisions.
Cancer Considerations
A retrospective study of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed bitches than intact bitches and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males.(7) A study of 3218 dogs demonstrated that dogs that were neutered before a year of age had a significantly increased chance of developing bone cancer.(8) A separate study showed that neutered dogs had a two-fold higher risk of developing bone cancer.(9) Despite the common belief that neutering dogs helps prevent prostate cancer, at least one study suggests that neutering provides no benefit.(10) There certainly is evidence of a slightly increased risk of mammary cancer in female dogs after one heat cycle, and for increased risk with each subsequent heat. While about 30 % of mammary cancers are malignant, as in humans, when caught and surgically removed early the prognosis is very good.(12) Luckily, canine athletes are handled frequently and generally receive prompt veterinary care.
Behavioral Considerations
The study that identified a higher incidence of cranial cruciate ligament rupture in spayed or neutered dogs also identified an increased incidence of sexual behaviors in males and females that were neutered early.(5) Further, the study that identified a higher incidence of hip dysplasia in dogs neutered or spayed before 5 1/2 months also showed that early age gonadectomy was associated with an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors.(6) A recent report of the American Kennel Club Canine Health Foundation reported significantly more behavioral problems in spayed and neutered bitches and dogs. The most commonly observed behavioral problem in spayed females was fearful behavior and the most common problem in males was aggression.(12)
Other Health Considerations
A number of studies have shown that there is an increase in the incidence of female urinary incontinence in dogs spayed early (13), although this finding has not been universal. Certainly there is evidence that ovarian hormones are critical for maintenance of genital tissue structure and contractility.(14, 15) Neutering also has been associated with an increased likelihood of urethral sphincter incontinence in males.(16) This problem is an inconvenience, and not usually life-threatening, but nonetheless one that requires the dog to be medicated for life. A health survey of several thousand Golden Retrievers showed that spayed or neutered dogs were more likely to develop hypothyroidism.(2) This study is consistent with the results of another study in which neutering and spaying was determined to be the most significant gender-associated risk factor for development of hypothyroidism.(17) Infectious diseases were more common in dogs that were spayed or neutered at 24 weeks or less as opposed to those undergoing gonadectomy at more than 24 weeks.(18) Finally, the AKC-CHF report demonstrated a higher incidence of adverse reactions to vaccines in neutered dogs as compared to intact.(12)


I have gathered these studies to show that our practice of routinely spaying or neutering every dog at or before the age of 6 months is not a black-and-white issue. Clearly more studies need to be done to evaluate the effects of prepubertal spaying and neutering, particularly in canine athletes.

Currently, I have significant concerns with spaying or neutering canine athletes before puberty. But of course, there is the pet overpopulation problem. How can we prevent the production of unwanted dogs while still leaving the gonads to produce the hormones that are so important to canine growth and development? One answer would be to perform vasectomies in males and tubal ligation in females, to be followed after maturity by ovariohysterectomy in females to prevent mammary cancer and pyometra. One possible disadvantage is that vasectomy does not prevent some unwanted behaviors associated with males such as marking and humping. On the other hand, females and neutered males frequently participate in these behaviors too. Really, training is the best solution for these issues. Another possible disadvantage is finding a veterinarian who is experienced in performing these procedures. Nonetheless, some do, and if the procedures were in greater demand, more veterinarians would learn them.

I believe it is important that we assess each situation individually. For canine athletes, I currently recommend that dogs and bitches be spayed or neutered after 14 months of age.


References:
Salmeri KR, Bloomberg MS, Scruggs SL, Shille V.. Gonadectomy in immature dogs: effects on skeletal, physical, and behavioral development. JAVMA 1991;198:1193-1203
http://www.grca.org/healthsurvey.pdf
Grumbach MM. Estrogen, bone, growth and sex: a sea change in conventional wisdom. J Pediatr Endocrinol Metab. 2000;13 Suppl 6:1439-55.
Gilsanz V, Roe TF, Gibbens DT, Schulz EE, Carlson ME, Gonzalez O, Boechat MI. Effect of sex steroids on peak bone density of growing rabbits. Am J Physiol. 1988 Oct;255(4 Pt 1):E416-21.
Slauterbeck JR, Pankratz K, Xu KT, Bozeman SC, Hardy DM. Canine ovariohysterectomy and orchiectomy increases the prevalence of ACL injury. Clin Orthop Relat Res. 2004 Dec;(429):301-5.
Spain CV, Scarlett JM, Houpt KA. Long-term risks and benefits of early-age gonadectomy in dogs. JAVMA 2004;224:380-387.
Ware WA, Hopper DL. Cardiac tumors in dogs: 1982-1995. J Vet Intern Med 1999 Mar-Apr;13(2):95-103
Cooley DM, Beranek BC, Schlittler DL, Glickman NW, Glickman LT, Waters D, Cancer Epidemiol Biomarkers Prev. 2002 Nov;11(11):1434-40
Ru G, Terracini B, Glickman LT. Host related risk factors for canine osteosarcoma. Vet J. 1998 Jul;156(1):31-9.
Obradovich J, Walshaw R, Goullaud E. The influence of castration on the development of prostatic carcinoma in the dog. 43 cases (1978-1985). J Vet Intern Med 1987 Oct-Dec;1(4):183-7
http://www.akcchf.org/pdfs/whitepapers/ ... erence.pdf
Meuten DJ. Tumors in Domestic Animals. 4th Edn. Iowa State Press, Blackwell Publishing Company, Ames, Iowa, p. 575
Stocklin-Gautschi NM, Hassig M, Reichler IM, Hubler M, Arnold S. The relationship of urinary incontinence to early spaying in bitches. J. Reprod. Fertil. Suppl. 57:233-6, 2001
Pessina MA, Hoyt RF Jr, Goldstein I, Traish AM. Differential effects of estradiol, progesterone, and testosterone on vaginal structural integrity. Endocrinology. 2006 Jan;147(1):61-9.
Kim NN, Min K, Pessina MA, Munarriz R, Goldstein I, Traish AM. Effects of ovariectomy and steroid hormones on vaginal smooth muscle contractility. Int J Impot Res. 2004 Feb;16(1):43-50.
Aaron A, Eggleton K, Power C, Holt PE. Urethral sphincter mechanism incompetence in male dogs: a retrospective analysis of 54 cases. Vet Rec. 139:542-6, 1996
Panciera DL. Hypothyroidism in dogs: 66 cases (1987-1992). J. Am. Vet. Med. Assoc., 204:761-7 1994
Howe LM, Slater MR, Boothe HW, Hobson HP, Holcom JL, Spann AC. Long-term outcome of gonadectomy performed at an early age or traditional age in dogs. J Am Vet Med Assoc. 2001 Jan 15;218(2):217-21.



http://pets1st.com/articles/00048EarlySterilization.asp
Boon to Pure-bred Breeders
Dr. Michael Aronsohn, director of the Early Sterilization Program at the Massachusetts SPCA's Angell Memorial Hospital, sees ESP as a boon to pure-bred dog breeders. Pet quality puppies may be neutered as early as 6 weeks of age. Dr. Aronsohn and his staff have neutered several hundred puppies and kittens with no ill effects.

At an animal shelter in Medford, Oregon, over 8000 puppies and kittens neutered at 8-12 weeks have shown no undesirable effects. Dr. Dick Rosebrock, Mariposa Veterinary Service, has performed ESP since June of 1993, on over 400 puppies and kittens with no reported adverse effects. Check with your veterinarian about early neutering.

Mandatory Neuter Policies
The pet population problem in the United States has reached enormous proportions. In 1987, for example, between 6.3 and 10.4 MILLION dogs were euthanized in shelters. Most animal care facilities have mandatory neuter policies which require the owners adopting puppies and kittens to have them neutered at 5-8 months of age. However, follow-up and enforcement of the policy is difficult at best. Compliance averages only 50-60%.

For sterilization programs to be effective, all non-breeding animals should be neutered prior to the onset of puberty, and compliance rates must be improved! ESP by shelters brings the compliance rate to 100%.

Neutering Studies
Questions regarding the appropriate age to perform gonadectomy and the safety of anesthetizing young puppies have been addressed and published. One study comparing the effects of neutering puppies at 7 weeks to those neutered at 7 months, found that neutering at either age produced similar effects on physical, skeletal and behavioral development.

Neutering did NOT affect food intake or weight gain. Neutering did NOT result in inactivity or lethargy, in fact, all neutered dogs were assessed by their caretakers to be more active than their sexually intact counterpart. They also found that prepuberal gonadectomy does NOT stunt growth; indeed, it contributes to growth enhancement. Bone growth ceases when the physiological growth plates "close." This closure is delayed about one month with prepuberal neutering resulting in forelimb bones growing a fraction of an inch longer than those of the un-neutered pups.

In Practice
Some shelters and veterinarians in private practices are currently performing ESP, but it's also important for breeders to understand why individual veterinarians may choose not to perform early neuters. An eight-week old puppy is not just a smaller version of an eight-month old puppy. There are important differences between the two in factors such as respiratory and cardiovascular physiology, drug metabolism and thermoregulation. Few practitioners have accumulated a significant amount of experience in anesthetizing very young puppies on a regular basis, since there are not very many situations which call for anesthesia that young.

Most practitioners are very comfortable with the anesthetic and surgical protocols they have developed for neutering older puppies/kittens and young adults and are reluctant to change.

Owner Responsibility
Responsible pet owners can...and should...make a concerted effort to insure that all pet puppies and kittens are neutered. Fulfillment of this duty brings all of us closer to breeding fewer dogs and cats and conquering the pet overpopulation problem.



This is from a pamphlet prepared and distributed in the interest of reducing the pet over-population problem facing communities throughout our country for A.W.A.R.E. (Animal Welfare And Responsibility Effort) By Mariposa Veterinary Service



http://www.askvetadvice.com/newsletter_ ... 2003.shtml
Medical Reasons For Considering Neutering or Spaying

There are many sound medical reasons for considering neutering or spaying, I've listed these in no particular order, but please honestly consider the information. I did select excerpts from many web site sources, most medical, a few from individual's & organization websites. In some instances, I've put information pertaining to the same category together from varied sources.

These are some of the best sources of information that I could find:
http://www.worldclassdogs.com/TheDoggyD ... sp?num=181


Traditionally neutering is done around six months of age, because that is the age of puberty in dogs. Many groups have shown an interest in neutering earlier for a variety of reasons. Recent studies have shown that there is no harm in neo-natal neutering, the only long-term effect is that the growth plates of the bones close later which results in a larger or taller dog. There is essentially no difference in anesthetic risk. It is healthiest if neutering takes place after a puppy received at least two of its vaccinations to provide best immunity for most puppy hood diseases. Contrary to popular belief, castration of a male dog does not "break his spirit"... worldwide, it is probably the most common routine surgery done in animal hospitals. Neutering does not promote any undesirable physical or emotional impact on the dog. Neutering operations remove the source of testosterone, which leads to problematic, and often life-threatening health issues, as wells as undesired behavioral problems.

Here are the MEDICAL REASONS; there are also many other good and valid reasons to neuter. Testosterone is a very powerful anabolic steroid with many short and long-term effects. Here is a list of some of the medical conditions influenced by the presence of Testosterone.
1) Prostate effects

Benign Prostatic hypertrophy - a gross enlargement of the prostate gland, as occurs in human men. In the dog this enlargement does not cause difficulty in urination but may create serious constipation.
Primary Prostatic Carcinoma - a highly metastatic form of cancer, which is usually fatal.
Generalized Noninfectious Prostatitis - an acute inflammation of the prostate, which causes pain on urination and is usually accompanied by hematuria, blood in the urine.
*Prostatic Abscess - either single or multiple micro abscesses, this is an infection of the gland caused by bacteria. The gland is more susceptible to infection when under the influence of testosterone.
2) Hernias - There are a number of hernias caused by Testosterone, they include: Scrotal hernias, inguinal hernias (in the groin), and perineal hernias (the area next to the tail). These hernias all require surgical correction. These hernias can be severe and life threatening especially if an organ becomes entrapped in the hernia.

3) Cancer - numerous cancers have been directly associated with testosterone, they include: Sertoli Cell tumors, Leydig Cell tumors, Perianal adenocarcinoma, Seminomas and interstitial cell tumors. Also Primary Prostatic Carcinoma, as above, all require surgery and some may also require Radiation and/or Chemotherapy as well.

4) Infections - Brucellosis is the worst, it has only slight chronic signs in the dog but causes abortion in the bitch. Balanoposthitis a chronic infection of the prepuce and penis, inside the sheath, this is the dog that is dripping droplets of pus from the opening of the prepuce (or sheath).

5) Miscellaneous

Paraphimosis - the inability to resolve an erection, the penis is stuck in an erectile condition and is very painful.
Perianal and Rectal fistulas - infected tracts from the rectum to an opening near the anus, which is usually draining blood, pus and feces. This is a particularly nasty condition and usually requires a board certified surgeon. The treatment may require removal of the anus and or rectum and the dog may experience fecal incontinence afterwards.


Most of the above conditions are preventable by neutering your dog. Every man who owns a dog should read this and consider if he wants to put his dog through this. It has been proven that neutered dogs live longer, healthier, and happier lives. We should not anthropomorphize. That is to attribute human emotions apply to them, a dog doesn't care whether it has been fixed or not. For those who are worried about the cosmetics, there are prosthetic implants, Neuticles tm, which can be placed in the scrotum at the time of neutering

Contrary to popular belief, there are no medical, emotional or sociological reasons for a male dog to sire, or female birth "just one litter". A misinformation and/or misguidance may lead one to believe that "having just one litter" is somehow good for the dog psychologically or medically. And the emotional or educational benefit to your children to experience the birth, and care taking of a litter of pups should be a very carefully analyzed proposition. Will your children accompany you to the animal shelter when you drop off those last six puppies you "just weren't able to find homes for"? If you do choose to allow your dog or cat to have a litter, please be certain that there are committed pet caretakers waiting and wanting to provide a home for them. Don't contribute to the pathetic destruction of tens of thousands of animals euthanized yearly in pounds and shelters. You do have the power and intelligence to make a difference.

GOOD REASONS TO SPAY/NEUTER YOUR PET

1) Spayed and neutered pets are less likely to run away from home. (minimize roaming)
Fact:
Males neutered early in life are less aggressive toward other males and are not distracted by females in heat. Therefore, a neutered male will be less tempted to leave your property and cross that dangerous highway searching for a mate. And neutered males are also less likely to mark every one of your (or your neighbor's) expensive shrubs with his urine as well as inside the house. Decreased roaming- Especially common in males, roaming tendencies expose dogs to many possibilities of trauma and disease that they would not normally be exposed to such as dog fights, automobile trauma, and contagious diseases such as Canine Parvo Virus which is ubiquitous in the environment.

2) Spayed and neutered pets are less likely to fight with other animals, thus saving themselves much pain and their owners a high veterinary bill. (minimize aggressive behaviors) Decreased aggression- Intergender aggression is common in dogs- especially among males. Wounds caused by dogfights can easily be as severe as those caused by automobiles. They are usually much more severe in the deeper tissues than the surface wounds indicate.

3) Spayed and neutered pets are less distracted by sexual instincts and become easier to train. Easier domestication- Dogs that are neutered early in life are more easily trained than their intact counterparts. They are not as easily distracted during training and males tend to not be bothered as much when there is a female dog in heat in the area.

4) Spayed and neutered dogs are usually more reliable "watch dogs" and more responsive to family members because they are less distracted by sexual instincts. The truth is that male dogs are usually better pets if they are neutered. They have less desire to roam, to mark territory (including furniture), or to exert dominance over family members. Another plus is that they won't be inclined to 'scent-mark' their territory (in other words, lift a leg) in forbidden areas, or be inclined to sexually molest people's legs, furniture, other pets, etc.

5) Neutered male pets are less likely to suffer infections or disorders in the prepuce or prostate glands. (some of which they can get from mating- Transmissible Venereal Tumors, and Brucella) Prostate disease- Like their human counterparts, it has been said that intact (un-neutered) males have an increased likelihood to develop prostatic tumors and infections, as they get older. These problems are uncommonly found in males neutered early in life. Testicular disease- Tumors such as Sertoli cell tumors and Seminomas are found in the testicles more commonly in dogs that are older. Also diseases such as testicular abscesses would be not be possible in a neutered dog. They are also healthier pets: no testicles means, no testicular cancer, which is not uncommon among aging intact male dogs.

6) Humanitarian reasons for the operations, the prime one being that your pet will not accidentally add to the overpopulation problem that results in so many helpless, unwanted dogs being put to death in animal shelters each year.

These numbers are in the millions. It is your responsibility to be sure that you don't allow your dog to contribute to the problem, through some notion, about preserving your dog's sexual rights. While many pet owners feel that it is nice to let the pet have one litter and for the family to witness such an event, they neglect to think about what is going to happen with puppies arrive. One walk through a local animal shelter will serve ample notice that more puppies are not in short supply on the planet. Pet overpopulation is a problem that has reached epic proportions.


The Numbers Are Staggering!
In 6 years, one female dog and its offspring can be the source of 67,000 puppies.
In 7 years, one female cat and its young can produce 420,000 kittens.
70,000 puppies and kittens are born every day in the USA alone. Compared to only 10,000 human births, it's clear that there will never be enough homes for all these animals.
Almost 8,000,000 dogs and cats are euthanized each year because there are no homes for them
In addition, I've tried to give you more info on both why/why not to breed:
http://personal.cfw.com/~dtratnac/neuter.htm


Five Common Excuses for Not Spaying or Neutering Pets:
1) My pet will get fat and lazy.

Neutering or spaying may diminish your pet's overall activity level, natural tendency to wander, and hormonal balances, which may influence appetite. Pets that become fat and lazy after being altered usually are overfed and do not get enough exercise.

2) We want another pet just like Rover and Fluffy.

Breeding two purebred animals rarely results in offspring that are exactly like one of the parents. With mixed breeds, it is virtually impossible to have offspring that are exactly like one of the parents.

3) My pet's personality will change.

Many changes will be for the better. After being altered, your pet will be less aggressive toward other dogs or cats, have a better personality, and will be less likely to wander. Spraying (urine marking), often done by dogs and cats to mark their territory, diminishes or ceases after pets are altered. I've never heard of an animal that changed for the worse.

4) We can sell puppies or kittens and make money.

Even well known breeders are fortunate if they break even on raising purebred litters. The cost of raising such a litter -- which includes stud fees, vaccinations and other health care costs, and feeding a quality food -- consumes most of the "profit." Well-known breeders raise breeds that they like. These breeders also try to improve the standard of the breeds they raise.

5) My children should witness our pet giving birth.

Pets often have their litters in the middle of the night or in a place of their own choosing. Because pets need privacy when giving birth, any unnecessary intrusion can cause the mother to become seriously upset. These intrusions can result in an unwillingness to care for the offspring or in injury to the owners or to the pet.

AKC registration is not an indication of quality, and neither is the presence of champions in the pedigree. Very few dogs have the outstanding qualities necessary for breeding. Each puppy you produce should be an improvement over the parents. You may feel your dog is perfect, but is it a model for the future of the breed? Read the standard for your breed, and show your dog in competition to see how it measures up to others. Research the common health problems in your breed and discuss testing for genetic defects with your veterinarian.

"I plan on making enough money to recoup my investment in this dog."

Experienced breeders will tell you that they often lose money due to stud fees, veterinary care, food, advertising, and time spent caring for the mother and litter. They all place enormous demands on your resources. Responsible breeders spend a lifetime learning about the bloodlines, genetics, and history of their breed. And this still doesn't guarantee a market for the puppies.

RESPONSIBLE BREEDERS ARE WORKING TO IMPROVE THEIR BREED, NOT PROFIT FROM IT.

- Maria-Elena Cloherty, DVM



I think it all boils down to who you believe. There is a TON of debate over it even in the medical profession. Every breeder, trainer and handler has their own opinion as well.

It makes sense that sex hormones effect growth, personality and behaviors. You have to decide what is the most important to you. There are exceptions to every rule, and you can find a million examples to back up whichever decision you make.
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Postby Mosesman » November 20th, 2007, 3:36 pm

Moses was neutered yesterday. I cant help but feel horrible. I have always been a dog person, and have lived with dogs for my whole life. This was the nicest pit bull Ive ever known, and I do not live with intact females, nor do I see or know any, so I think I made a mistake. I was pressured by my sister to get him done, and without thinking it through I decided to do it. He is SIX MONTHS. When I got him, his eyes were wet, I've never seen a dog like that. I don't know if it was tears or what. Anyhow, I will be very disappointed and angry at myself if he does not go back to being the ruff yet gentle, loving and hyper dog he was before. I will never forgive myself.
I will also be very angry at myself if he doesn't grow into the body he was supposed to grow into. He is a nicely shaped pit, his ears are perfect, his head is good sized, but it isn't super broad, but, I sure would like it to grow more, I mean he is still a pup, and he weighs 55lbs.


Thanks to everyone for posting the responses, it really does help me. I am one of those people that needs alot of conclusive evidence to sway my opinion. From what I read, neutering at an early age,(they said before puberty) will cause the plates to NOT close, hence making their bones longer, and their stature TALLER. So, wouldn't this make their overall heads, shoulders, and everything BIGGER??????????

Another thing I'm thinking is, they said that this happens when neutering BEFORE puberty. But, they said puberty happens at 6 months. So, whats the deal with that? Would that stuff happen if you neutered AT six months, or would you have to wait a couple months after the 6 month puberty deadline to perform the surgery?????
By the way, he has been humping his polar bear and brown bear stuffed animals for at least TWO MONTHS, and his testicles were pretty large for a pup, so I think he has been in puberty for awhile. Anyhow.....
......IF Someone could please post a link to their neutered male, who was neutered at 6 months or before, I would REALLY appreciate it. Id like to see some pics of some big ol' beautiful neutered boys to make me feel better about MO MAN. Thanks for the help guys, I'm kind of freaking out here....
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Postby cheekymunkee » November 20th, 2007, 3:44 pm

Don't feel horrible!! He will be fine. I have neutered dogs of all ages & they have all turned out ok. Some dogs will be a bit more leggy if neutered early but his personality won't change. I had Munkee neutered at 5 & he is still as silly as he ever was. He doesn't even know they are gone. :wink:
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Postby gayrghts » November 20th, 2007, 3:46 pm

do a search on my user name and Harley and you'll find my am staff who was neutered early....

they really have no need for those appendages unless you are going to breed them.....

his eyes were wet because they put a vaseline type stuff into them to keep them from being scratched during surgery.... they do it with people as well....

he'll be fine... you won't notice a thing after he's gotten over the surgery/anesthesia... in about a week....
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Postby Jenn » November 20th, 2007, 3:47 pm

He will be fine. I really don't believe the difference in neutering vs not neutering could ever be that drastic anyway.. :| IMO, genetics will play the bigger role, along with nutrition, exercise, etc. far more than spaying/neutering.
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Postby Mosesman » November 20th, 2007, 4:20 pm

Thanks alot guys, I really appreciate it. I didnt know they put vaseline in their eyes, but it makes sense, since I couldnt wipe his eyes dry.... :?
ANyhow, I guess I'm attaching human emotion to it, but I always viewed dogs as equals, and I think that's part of the reason why I'm having so much trouble with it. Anyhow, I will check out the pics of your dogs that were neutered b4 or at 6 months, that will make me feel better, to see how they turned out. I will post pics of my boy as soon as he "wakes up" from this anesthesia trance he is in... Thanks for the help everyone!!! :greenWave:
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Postby Malli » November 20th, 2007, 4:25 pm

He'll be back to his old self in a day or 2, and then you'll be cursing :lol3:
Oscar bounced back so quickly from his neuter, I had a horrible time trying to leash walk and rest him...
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Postby Marinepits » November 20th, 2007, 4:26 pm

Here are some pics of Shorty (female black/white) and Tucker (male red), my Staffy Bull mixes:

http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?t=13395

Both were speutered under a year old and you can tell that it didn't affect their physical development at all. Shorty is about 4 years old and Tucker is about 18 months.
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Postby Mosesman » November 20th, 2007, 5:43 pm

Im wondering what type of pit he is, whether he has am staff in him or not, and im wondering what figure he will have, Ive attached some pics of
different pitbulls, with the same type of head as my boy. Of course, my boy is only a little over 6 months, and he is 55lbs. I mean the shape of the head is the same as my boys, but the blue pit, has basically the same size head as MO. Mo's ears are perfect too.

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpi ... t_bull.jpg

http://www.coloradocathouse.com/AmPitBull8336.jpg

Do these kinds of heads on a 6 months old grow bigger?????????
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Postby TheRedQueen » November 20th, 2007, 5:46 pm

Score was neutered at 6 months, as he was in an Asst. dog program at the time, and was discharged for being too bully...so he was neutered before he left the program. He's a mix, so who knows what he'll end up being as an adult...but he's not lacking for muscle and tone. He's nine months old this month...and is as solid and thick as can be. He's the same height as his Aussie siblings, but outweighs them all by at least 10 pounds now.

Then I've got two male Aussies with "bitch" heads...but both were neutered right around a year old or more. Neither one has a nice head...so neutering late didn't help them. It's a term of endearment around here..."bitch head".

Most recent pics...

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf34b3127ccebfbbc870153200000026108IaMmTJmzao">

This one makes me laugh...because he looks so bully here. ;) He's got quite a chest on him...

<img src="http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b7cf34b3127ccebfbb0127d4a900000035118IaMmTJmzao">
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Postby gayrghts » November 20th, 2007, 7:29 pm

On November 20 2007, 4:43 PM, Mosesman wrote:Im wondering what type of pit he is, whether he has am staff in him or not, and im wondering what figure he will have, Ive attached some pics of
different pitbulls, with the same type of head as my boy. Of course, my boy is only a little over 6 months, and he is 55lbs. I mean the shape of the head is the same as my boys, but the blue pit, has basically the same size head as MO. Mo's ears are perfect too.

http://www.bulldogbreeds.com/americanpi ... t_bull.jpg

http://www.coloradocathouse.com/AmPitBull8336.jpg

Do these kinds of heads on a 6 months old grow bigger?????????


I thought you said in your intro, that he was a purebred with papers... wouldn't that tell you what type he is?
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Postby Mosesman » November 21st, 2007, 12:06 am

No, I never said he has papers. He definately is a purebred pit breed, but im not sure whther his mother or father were BOTH AMPBT, or one was AMSTAFF. The father was a stout and big guy, mightve had some amstaff in him, I dont know. Both parents were pits, the mom was a smaller pit, she was tan/brindle. The litter was black and brindle. My boy is black.. Im just trying to figure out if anyone can tell anything about how big he is gonna be by the pics I posted. He is 55lbs now and is 6 months.
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Postby Mosesman » November 21st, 2007, 12:12 am

WHATS AN AUSSIE???????????
What is your tan dog mixed with?????
I have a red nose mixed with a chocolate lab, and he looks like a pit, but he looks like one with big ears and a long snout, and, all his features are a little more "labbish". But, when you get him exercising, on walks, and when he pants, he looks like a pure bred pit.
Anyhow, this is my first pure bred pit, and I just want him to have the pit bull features, I'm just worrying too much. I was thinking, and I don't think that the testicles are the ONLY source of testosterone. I'm pretty sure there are other glands that make it. Plus, like others said, exercise helps, and also, you cant stop his genetics from giving him great features.
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Postby amazincc » November 21st, 2007, 12:13 am

On November 20 2007, 11:08 AM, katiek0417 wrote:I'm not so sure about pitties, but I have seen several dogs where neutering did NOTHING for behavior. If they were jerks before, they were jerks after...

Additionally, one thing I have noticed, if neutered too early, the heads don't fully develop (for example, I showed a dog last year in PSA, who had a pinhead, and Greg believes that it was because he was neutered so early in life)...


Uhm... I can vouch for the "jerk" statement... no difference in behavior due to neutering... just due to better training, maybe.
As for the pin-head syndrome... nope, Mick has a big ole' head and is pretty stocky... he was neutered at 6 months of age... :D
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