Crate Issue & Broken Canine

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Postby litlpitbull » March 16th, 2006, 10:22 pm

Minnie has been with me for 3 weeks. She is about a year old. Minnie was the victim in a cruelty case. She was left outside and nearly starved to death. Obviously, she was not a house dog and has had no formal training.

I have been trying to get her crate trained but she has been chewing out of her plastic crates. More specifically, she has been chewing out of the side air vents located on the top half of the crate. Her foster mother told me not to place her in a metal crate because she escaped out of one while in her care. We also had safety concerns.

We thought the best alternative would be to take the bottom half of 2 crates and form one. This seemed to work; however, she managed to cover herself and the crate with saliva. Furthermore, I can't leave any bedding in the crate because she shreds it to pieces. Hence, she was essentially sitting in her saliva for most the day.

I thought that the saliva may have been the result of her being too hot in the crate because my new contraption is missing the standard side air vents. Therefore, I decided to leave her in Sammie's vented plastic crate yesterday to see if this would solve the saliva problem. My rationale for the prior decision revolved around the fact that I would rather have her chew out of a crate than have her over heat in one. I also thought that she might be a little bit more comfortable being kept in a crate at this juncture.

She appeared fine yesterday. The crate was unmolested and there was no saliva. However, today, I sat on one of her canines.

Minnie had a cracked canine before she was in my care (probably the result of her trying to escape out of another crate). I examined her teeth and noticed that she broke her other canine as well. Both have been snapped in half. Most likely, due to her attempted escape out of this crate.

My first question:

Does anyone have any thoughts on the crate issue (yeah I know she has separation anxiety)? In other words, what type of crate do you recommend and what should I do in the mean time until I can effectively treat the separation anxiety (which as most of you know just takes alot of time and patience)?

Second question:

Have any of you dealt with a broken canine? Both have been snapped in half. They don't appear to bother her because she was able to eat a full bowl of hard kibble for dinner without a problem. I am going to take her to the vet but until I do...should I have any other concerns regarding the broken canine?

Sorry about the long winded email but I would truly appreciate your thoughts and concerns.

Sincerely,

Rich
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Postby Maryellen » March 16th, 2006, 10:26 pm

the saliva and ripping the blankets i am assuming is from separation anxiety of being left alone now that she was rescued.. i had a foster dog who by the time i got home no matter where i went her crate would be soaked and so would she, plus she was panting like crazy.. something scared her and she developed afear of me leaving.. i couldnt even leave for a few minutes and she would go nuts..


have you tried to slowly reintroduce her to the crate, or leave her in a gated part of the house? do you have any other dogs or animals? how is she when you are home with her??
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Postby Maryellen » March 16th, 2006, 10:28 pm

oh duh its you rich..sorry forget about the other animal part.. is sammie crated too? have you tried crating both dogs side by side so minnie can see sammie??
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Postby msvette2u » March 16th, 2006, 10:32 pm

I agree, the saliva and panting is from stress. Dogs will drool when frightened, I see it often when they are at the shelter (just newly put there). Sometimes they look like they have rabies.
I fostered a GSD very briefly that had separation anxiety that bad. I'm not cut out to deal with a dog like that and I found her a home really quickly.
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Postby mnp13 » March 16th, 2006, 10:50 pm

You'll need to have the vet look at the teeth. If they are broken too high up they will need to be pulled so that the nerve doesn't get exposed, if the pulp is exposed it will be more prone to decay.

As for the crate, Ruby had the exact same problem and we treated it with Melatonin and Benedryl. It took a few months but worked very well.
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Postby litlpitbull » March 18th, 2006, 12:08 am

Maryellen wrote:oh duh its you rich..sorry forget about the other animal part.. is sammie crated too? have you tried crating both dogs side by side so minnie can see sammie??


All good advice. My vet and I determined that Xanax would be the best solution until I can figure out the root of her problem. I am going to video tape her next week.

It's a very odd behavior because the crate does not bother her as long as I am at home. She is an angel when I am around. The horns come out when I am not at home.

My sitter comes for her mid day walk and she is alway asleep in the crate. I am just BAFFLED as how she is managing to chew through the crate??? In addition, she won't do it in front of me so it has been very difficult for me to fix. Behavior issues are the toughest to figure out and cure.

I am not a huge proponent for using drugs but in this case I think its the best alternative until I can modify her behavior.

Thanks for the advice and help!
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Postby litlpitbull » March 18th, 2006, 12:12 am

mnp13 wrote:You'll need to have the vet look at the teeth. If they are broken too high up they will need to be pulled so that the nerve doesn't get exposed, if the pulp is exposed it will be more prone to decay.

As for the crate, Ruby had the exact same problem and we treated it with Melatonin and Benedryl. It took a few months but worked very well.


My vet has told me that Minnie may need a root canal and a crown but the more I think about it I am most likely going to have her pull the tooth.

I opted for the Xanax. I hope it works.

Thanks for the reply and help!
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Postby litlpitbull » March 18th, 2006, 12:19 am

msvette2u wrote:I agree, the saliva and panting is from stress. Dogs will drool when frightened, I see it often when they are at the shelter (just newly put there). Sometimes they look like they have rabies.
I fostered a GSD very briefly that had separation anxiety that bad. I'm not cut out to deal with a dog like that and I found her a home really quickly.


I'll have to agree. This has been a difficult issue. I just hope the Xanax works until I can get to the root of the problem.

I love her very much and I don't want to give up until I have exhausted all my remedies. She has a ton of potential and she is going to be an outstanding dog once I get past this bump.
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Postby msvette2u » March 18th, 2006, 12:31 am

I am just BAFFLED as how she is managing to chew through the crate??? In addition, she won't do it in front of me so it has been very difficult for me to fix. Behavior issues are the toughest to figure out and cure.


Oh it's quite possible. Bagheera left alot of teethmarks on the one she was in, and she hurt herself in the process.

I recently saw a crate that had a big hole in it, just above the door, made after a dog had been left in it WAYYY too long and it tried to chew it's way out. It almost made it out, too...
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Postby SisMorphine » March 18th, 2006, 12:58 am

http://www.youngliving.us

Look for "Trauma Life"

It's an essential oil, a mixture of flower essences, absolutely safe. I had a foster who was throwing fits and ripping her nose open everytime she was crated. We rubbed a couple drops of this oil into her ears and she calmed down within 15 minutes.

My trainer had a foster Rottie who had the worst SA she had ever experienced. She would come home to find a dog sitting in a puddle that looked like she had peed in her crate, but really it was saliva. She used the Trauma Life and the dog now crates wonderfully in her new home.

It's expensive, but I've seen it work, and I feel like it's worth the big bucks.
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Postby Maryellen » March 18th, 2006, 8:10 am

one of my fosters rich did the same thing.. fine in the crate while i was around, but as soon as i left the room she flipped out... i had her crate next to rufus's , but something triggered her and that didnt even work.. she was fine the first week i had her, then whatever triggered her made it so i couldnt even leave for 5 minutes. the people that adopted her gated her in their hallway, and she never had another incident again..
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 12:24 am

not to tell you what to do.... but...

the effects of melatonin and benedryl are immediate. They are also cheaper and have no side effects. the xanax will take time to take effect.

They wanted to put Ruby on Prozac, and I opted to try the benedryl and melatonin instead and was very happy.
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Postby litlpitbull » March 19th, 2006, 11:32 pm

SisMorphine wrote:www.youngliving.us

Look for "Trauma Life"

It's an essential oil, a mixture of flower essences, absolutely safe. I had a foster who was throwing fits and ripping her nose open everytime she was crated. We rubbed a couple drops of this oil into her ears and she calmed down within 15 minutes.

My trainer had a foster Rottie who had the worst SA she had ever experienced. She would come home to find a dog sitting in a puddle that looked like she had peed in her crate, but really it was saliva. She used the Trauma Life and the dog now crates wonderfully in her new home.

It's expensive, but I've seen it work, and I feel like it's worth the big bucks.


Thanks. Do you have a link so I can take a peek at the stuff?
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Postby BigDogBuford » March 20th, 2006, 12:20 am

litlpitbull wrote:
mnp13 wrote:You'll need to have the vet look at the teeth. If they are broken too high up they will need to be pulled so that the nerve doesn't get exposed, if the pulp is exposed it will be more prone to decay.

As for the crate, Ruby had the exact same problem and we treated it with Melatonin and Benedryl. It took a few months but worked very well.


My vet has told me that Minnie may need a root canal and a crown but the more I think about it I am most likely going to have her pull the tooth.

I opted for the Xanax. I hope it works.

Thanks for the reply and help!


If you cvan swing it, a root canal is a much better choice. Especially with canines it's better for them in the long run.

It sounds like she might need some chemical intervention, it'll proably make her feel much better!
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