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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 11:09 am

Well, I'm thinking about it. I may agree with you. I mean, I agree with what you've said above, I'm just not 100% sure I agree they should be a seperate variety. This is interesting, I'm going to have to ponder this, 'specially since the red/rednoses are my main squeeze in the breed.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 11:10 am

Oh, and P.s. You know I love that Dilly Dog! That's why she's alllll over the cover of my booklet :wink:
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Postby Karen » January 27th, 2006, 11:24 am

realpitbull wrote:Well, I'm thinking about it. I may agree with you. I mean, I agree with what you've said above, I'm just not 100% sure I agree they should be a seperate variety. This is interesting, I'm going to have to ponder this, 'specially since the red/rednoses are my main squeeze in the breed.


I know. I have always said no to the split just because, however, why do our reds (not the pitterstaffs) have to be head and shoulders no mistake the perfection above a blue fawn or something to get the win? They are already being judged and found wanting by AST judges (nose definitely black) so why not make it official?

The fact that all the judging seminars in the known world won't make a judge change their predjudice one iota. It really sucks.

I know you think the Dumpling is special too :) I had someone see a pic of her with a ball in her mouth. They said oh she has one of those giant balls too? I had to go look and say nooooooo.... That's a regular tennis ball just red and yellow. Dilly's that small.


It was after they watched the Dillyspective, she turned 2 last week. Anniemae is next she is 3 in 3 days.
http://thedogs.lilacpitbull.com/Dilly2year.html
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Postby Romanwild » January 27th, 2006, 11:28 am

I'm sorry but "type" isn't our main problem right now.

BSL and the extiction of the breed is.

I don't like the muggelstons of the world either but they aren't in the show ring either. If you do manage to change the standard they'll just start their own (which they have the begininings of now) or just stop registering all together. Most of the Pits out there aren't papered anyway.

I don't have a problem joining forces with the "enemy" if it mean saving the breed so we can argue later over how the byb's aren't breeding to standard. We need money right now.

My breed club will not allow litter postings or adds but we try hard to keep the byb's invloved. I don't want to exclude them . I want to change their thinking.

We might have lost one breeder but another is spaying his bitch and joining the fight. He and I just rescued 6 puppies from a mentally handicapped owner.

All I'm saying is that messing with the standard, although important, is not urgent. BSL is.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 11:33 am

Of course BSL is urgent. But I can talk about the standard AND fight BSL. I'm good at multi-tasking.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 11:33 am

Ok guys this is all fine and dandy talking about the show dogs ...

What about Mrs. EverydayJoe here, the ones who have the BYB specials that were ooops cause people didn't know enough to spay/neuter their dogs, and end up getting their family pet from a shelter/rescue. The ones who have no idea what is involved in showing dogs , we need to also be considered into every thing , because we make up a big part of the "Pitbull " community also.

We also have alot to contribute also , be it donations to a organization , shelter/rescue, foundation to help canine's , or time to go out and rally for support for our breed. Or sending off emails to people about BSL . You show me some thing worth getting involved in , you might have my support.

I don't believe in BYB, I don't believe in dog fighting , we got some wonderful breeders out there, I don't have to name them off we already know who they are, then we got the breeders who shouldn't even be allowed to breed, the fad breeders , the ones who breed for what they think people want , oh lord have mercy on us .

Some Mr. & Mrs. EverydayJoe see's these and think that is what a "Pitbull" is suppost to look like, and that is not what our breed is suppost to look like. They hear about the "Pitbulls" who have mean temperments etc, and that is what they think all of them are suppost to be, but when in reality, a "Pitbull" is a very friendly dog, loyal etc, and not a good guard dog at all , maybe a watch dog , but not a guard dog. Alot of people buy them with the idea that they are getting a great guard dog, and they are disappointed when they do not get what they think they want, and alot of the dogs end up in shelters/rescues, or worse yet out on a chain in the back yard being neglected.

Another misconcetion is that all "Pitbull" owners are gangsters, etc, when in reality most owners are every day people, Dr's, Lawyers, etc etc.

There is to big a field out there that we are dealing with , and where do we beginning ?

Each city and state has their own problems, like here in Houston , out on Hwy 6 there is a place where they sell every thing from bikes to puppies, and you see alot of "Pitbulls" being sold there . I about cry every time we go past there , to me it should be illegal to sell animals like that.

Some how we need to get backyard breeding stopped, which is the million dollar question how to do it ?

Shelters/Rescues have one solution no animal is let adopted with out being spayed before it leaves it's door.

Exactly why do show dogs have to be unaltered?

I personally can't get out and go to rally's etc , but I do have a mind I do have my computer where I can send off emails, etc ...

And I don't believe joining forces with like Muggleston type is the answer either , it's not the dogs faults they are the innocent victims in this , but some how we have to get those type of breedings to stop, heaven only knows how tho.

And the Diane Jessups of the world, some one who was suppost to be a advocate for the breed, against byb, then turning around and buying a pup from one sends out double means to people .

Some times it seems like a no win situation , the dogs are the ones who are gonna suffer in the end .

People need to be more responsible dog owners , maybe they should have to take a course in "Dog Ownership" before any one is allowed to adopt or buy a dog .

I have taken Dottie and socialized her since we got her, tried to do all that is possible to make my husband and myself and her a contribution to the world.

Also get's me when people say that shy, timid animals should be put down , OH boy , Dottie was a very shy and timid pup the day I met her, she had NO idea how to do any thing, but I took the time and love to insure her a wonderful life. Her coat was a dingy white/yellow when I first laid eys on her , now she's a beautiful white/brindle, love is a wonder when it's used right. She is very dog and human friendly , she's a little social butterfly ..

This is just my thoughts ..

Dottie at 6 months old ..

Image

Dottie today at 22 months old ..

Image

You can see the big difference in her , what love and good food has done for her .. I believe every dog should have that chance ...

I don't know my :twocents: form Mrs. EverydayJoe ..
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Postby Karen » January 27th, 2006, 11:38 am

Romanwild wrote:I'm sorry but "type" isn't our main problem right now.

BSL and the extiction of the breed is.

I don't like the muggelstons of the world either but they aren't in the show ring either. If you do manage to change the standard they'll just start their own (which they have the begininings of now) or just stop registering all together. Most of the Pits out there aren't papered anyway.

I don't have a problem joining forces with the "enemy" if it mean saving the breed so we can argue later over how the byb's aren't breeding to standard. We need money right now.

My breed club will not allow litter postings or adds but we try hard to keep the byb's invloved. I don't want to exclude them . I want to change their thinking.

We might have lost one breeder but another is spaying his bitch and joining the fight. He and I just rescued 6 puppies from a mentally handicapped owner.

All I'm saying is that messing with the standard, although important, is not urgent. BSL is.


It goes hand in hand. In So CA all they see are the huge overdone dogs and you know what kennels I'm thinking of, I know you do. If big dogs like that are "standard" (remember the balanced crap in there?) then their dog worked a little could do that too. It is an education situation as you have found out. I have one of the very few remaining trifold pamhlets NAPBTA used to hand out through UKC with the breed standard, club info, and pics of SMALL DOGS.

How can you legitimately point out a 90 pound dog that is "balanced" and say it is too big with the standards as they are? And if that guy's 90 pounder is "standard" then the next guy's Gotti is standard on weight, right?

Nothing is spelled out. People are too afraid of getting some segment of show breeders pissed off so ambiguity is the name of the game. Doesn't help that some of the elephant breeders are judges either. Bug is a goodly portion of Amberlite but God is my witness, she's a heifer! Way too big and at almost 19 inches she was the RUNT of the litter! The boys are 23 inches! That's a dang Ibizan in a bulldog suit!

So onto BSL........ If what the public is seeing are the huge tall, lanky BYB dogs then time for a change. Make inspections a mandate with teeth for single registration. Change the name to Yankee Terriers in UKC, semantics counts for a LOT with the law. A word here, a word there, and the whole thing is a moot point.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 11:42 am

Also, we have to consider why we have BSL to begin with...........

As long as we keep having attacks and as long as there is such a huge over-population problem, we're going to have BSL. As long as the breed clubs and registries continue to not give a crap, we are going to have BSL. As long as bad breeders continue to not give a crap about the breed, we are going to have BSL. The breed is a huge mish-mosh right now. There is no conformity to ANYthing, no unity. Half the people involved in "pit bull rescue/activism" don't even consider or care about any "BREED". As soon as you start talking about a "breed" they scream and run for the hills. Um....ok? Everyone keeps talking about uniting and putting aside differences, but we can't even agree on whether or not a "Pit Bull" is even a breed. And those of use who dare voice a concern FOR the breed are chastised.

We are in this mess because the guardians of the breed didn't do their job. Now the breed is so watered down, there are so many categories, so many people contradicting each other, that we CAN'T ever join together. Not the way things are now. Dog owner in general, regardless of breed, need to fight BSL. A non-breed specific anti-BSL campaign needs to be launched. That is the ONLY thing that will save "pit bulls" and dogs in general. As soon as you make BSL a breed-specific issue, especially when we are talking Pit Bulls, you loose. Plain and simple. ESPECIALLY with how f-d up the Pit Bull world is right now.
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Postby Karen » January 27th, 2006, 11:42 am

Also get's me when people say that shy, timid animals should be put down , OH boy , Dottie was a very shy and timid pup the day I met her, she had NO idea how to do any thing, but I took the time and love to insure her a wonderful life. Her coat was a dingy white/yellow when I first laid eys on her , now she's a beautiful white/brindle, love is a wonder when it's used right. She is very dog and human friendly , she's a little social butterfly ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think you might have been mistaking shy for submissive. Shy, fearful dogs don't get better they are never cured.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 11:47 am

Well Karen , I have seen some tell people that have dogs to start off with that are like Dottie was , tell the people to have them put down , and they actually use the words "Shy & timid" ...

That's what i'm talking about ... you've miss some crap :(
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 11:49 am

Emi wrote:Well Karen , I have seen some tell people that have dogs to start off with that are like Dottie was , tell the people to have them put down , and they actually use the words "Shy & timid" ...

That's what i'm talking about ... you've miss some crap :(


"Shy and timid" is incorret temperament for this breed. Shy and timid often translates into "fear biter". It's great that your dog grew into a sound, stable animal, but personally I recommend "fearful" dogs NOT be adopted out by rescues. A dog that's a little shy is a different story.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 11:57 am

Well guess I should explain her situation ....

She was one of those puppies who was sold out on Hwy 6 here in Houston, then the person took her into the shelter/rescue here .

She went to her 1st Foster person, who kept her in a kennel 22/24 , with kittens and cats , they did not play with her, they didn't inact with her, when she hit 6 months old they took her back to the shelter and told them to put her to sleep.

Jennifer her second foster mother was in there that day , and told them no that she'd take Dottie and work with her , Jennifer said Dottie didn't want to come out of her kennel cause that is all she knew ...

When I first laid eyes on her , Jennifer had her down at Petsmart socializing her , she was in one of the crates there , with her paws crossed and her head down on them, when she looked up at me , it was like "Ah take me home" I belong to you ...

I asked Jennifer to let me see her , I sat on a chair talking with her for a hour that day , she sat between my legs with her head on my leg just looking up at me with a smile.

I had to prove to Jennifer alot of things before she let me have her, etc etc...

I taught Dottie how to walk in and out the door, how to walk on a leash, etc etc.

Oh maybe I was wrong in adopting her in your guys eyes ...

Who knows...
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Postby Karen » January 27th, 2006, 12:01 pm

That's lack of socialization and all the new things. That doesn't necessarily mean she was shy or timd as in bad temp at all.
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Postby realpitbull » January 27th, 2006, 12:03 pm

I'm not saying you shouldn't have adopted her or that she should have been euth'd. And if she had beginnings as horrible as you describe, it is a testament to her stable temperament that she pulled out ok.

I'm talking in general, and based on experience and what I know of the breed. If I am asked to eval. a dog that is fearful and won't come to me and jumps at EVERYthing, I'm most likely not going to suggest such a dog be adopted out. I look for sound, outgoing temperaments when I eval.

But this is off topic, if you'd like to talk more about shy/fearful temps, I'd be happy to do so on another thread.
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Postby Emi » January 27th, 2006, 12:04 pm

Ah ok .. :)
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