"Working" traits vs "emotional" traits

This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 1st, 2011, 10:21 am

I'm reading the book "Dog Sense" by John Bradshaw. They did a research study and came to the conclusion that:
"Thus while working traits may be characteristic of breeds or types, emotional traits show much overlap between breeds."

Now in regards to our dogs, would dog reactivity be considered a working trait since that is what they were bred for originally, or would it be considered an emotional trait since very few people are purposefully breeding FOR dog aggression these days?
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby SisMorphine » October 1st, 2011, 2:28 pm

Does he give a definition of "working trait" vs. "emotional trait"?
"All changes, even the most longed for, have their melancholy; for what we leave behind us is a part of ourselves; we must die to one life before we can enter another." -Anatole France
SisMorphine
They're like service dogs gone wrong.
 
Posts: 9233
Location: PR

Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 1st, 2011, 2:50 pm

He means working traits such as retrieving, hunting, guarding, etc. Emotional traits are anxiety, friendliness, outgoingness, etc.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby plebayo » October 1st, 2011, 4:46 pm

or would it be considered an emotional trait since very few people are purposefully breeding FOR dog aggression these days?


Do you have statistics that actually say this? Or is this your personal opinion? Also I guess it depends on what you consider "aggression" is, or aggression vs. drive etc.

Anyway I think a working trait is an ingrained/bred trait that the dog does by instinct. IE: A cattle dog pushing cows around without formal training. The instinct to herd would be a working trait. However after the dog has pushed the cattle around, or even while the dog is pushing the cattle around if they get anxious, nervous, or excited in my opinion that would then be the emotional trait coming out.

I think reactivity would be considered an emotional trait. Across the board any dog can be reactive to other dogs depending on the personality of the dog. Your Pit Bull might be dog reactive but my friends Pit Bull might not be. Whereas if your Pit Bull felt the need to hold down a cow or a horse I would consider that a working trait and part of the breed. I think a working trait comes out as an inherited need to do something. Although another dog may think it is fun to bite livestock I don't think a Labrador would look at a cow or horse the same way a pit bull might because Labradors are bred for something totally different.

I just don't view reactivity as an instinctual thing. I mean, is the dog reactive because it's a pit bull? Is it reactive because it's a female? Is it reactive because it was under-socialized/over-socialized?
Suzanne
Seth, CGC & LiLo
♥♥Sofie - Always in my heart. ♥♥
User avatar
plebayo
Mrs. Dr. Kildare
 
Posts: 942
Location: Oregon

Postby mnp13 » October 1st, 2011, 7:37 pm

I doubt there are statistics to support whether or not people are breeding for dog aggression. The only people who would be doing that on purpose don't really answer surveys. However, I don't believe that responsible breeding actually breeds against it either. But that's outside of this discussion...

I believe that in Pit Bulls, dog aggression is instinctual. Just like every breed, there are extremes and most fall in the middle. Sure other breeds can be dog aggressive, but other breeds besides retrievers will bring things back to you as well.

So, yes, considering the origins of the breed, I think aggression has been bred into the dogs. But so has "gameness" so I'm not sure which one would be the "working trait" of Pit Bulls.
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby plebayo » October 1st, 2011, 10:08 pm

I doubt there are statistics to support whether or not people are breeding for dog aggression. The only people who would be doing that on purpose don't really answer surveys. However, I don't believe that responsible breeding actually breeds against it either. But that's outside of this discussion...


I definitely realize this, but that is why I wondered where she got her information from to say that people aren't breeding for aggression. I think people are still doing it, but the aggression[or drive...] they are breeding for is "acceptable". It isn't acceptable to breed/produce a dog specifically for dog fighting, but it is acceptable to breed/produce a dog to take down wild boar/various forms of other large game. It is also acceptable to produce a dog specifically for sports like Schutzhund and Personal Protection.

Anywho-

:topic:

:neener:
Suzanne
Seth, CGC & LiLo
♥♥Sofie - Always in my heart. ♥♥
User avatar
plebayo
Mrs. Dr. Kildare
 
Posts: 942
Location: Oregon

Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 1st, 2011, 10:22 pm

There are no statistics to back up my idea that less people are breeding specifically for dog aggression, but like Michelle said, those people are the ones illegally fighting their dogs and wouldn't take surveys anyway. I have a feeling the majority of people breeding pit bulls aren't breeding for or against dog aggression - it's just not a factor.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

http://www.pitbullzen.com
http://inaradog.wordpress.com
User avatar
pitbullmamaliz
Working out in the buff causes chafing
 
Posts: 15437
Location: Cleveland, OH

Postby mnp13 » October 2nd, 2011, 12:25 am

pitbullmamaliz wrote: I have a feeling the majority of people breeding pit bulls aren't breeding for or against dog aggression - it's just not a factor.

Don't I wish...

get on the "AmStaff only" boards, where people protest that don't have PIT BULLS. :rolleyes2: "Those dogs" are dog aggressive. It is a huge factor for many people. The people responsibly breeding Pit Bulls don't make it a factor. :wink:
Michelle

Inside me is a thin woman trying to get out. I usually shut the bitch up with a martini.
User avatar
mnp13
Evil Overlord
 
Posts: 17234
Location: Rochester, NY

Postby furever_pit » October 2nd, 2011, 7:39 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:I'm reading the book "Dog Sense" by John Bradshaw. They did a research study and came to the conclusion that:
"Thus while working traits may be characteristic of breeds or types, emotional traits show much overlap between breeds."

Now in regards to our dogs, would dog reactivity be considered a working trait since that is what they were bred for originally, or would it be considered an emotional trait since very few people are purposefully breeding FOR dog aggression these days?


Interesting.

Don't you think that where the dog aggression or dog reactivity is coming from makes a difference in whether it is a "working trait" or an "emotional trait"? I know that in protection work I define a dog's display of aggression toward the man differently depending on where it is coming from inside the dog. For example, if a dog is DR or DA out of fear, anxiety or insecurity then I would view that as an "emotional trait". On the other hand, a dog that actively and confidently wants to engage another dog (even if it never has) simply because there is something inside him/her telling them that that is the right thing or fun thing to do - I think that would be a "working trait". I am also tempted to say that dogs that are DA that also display other forms of animal aggression (specifically towards hogs or cattle with no training or prior experience) are showing an even broader "working trait".

Additionally, does the fact that a particular breeder is not purposefully breeding for a breed's old time working traits mean that when those traits pop up that it is suddenly an emotional trait? Or is it just a genetic throwback?
User avatar
furever_pit
Supremely Bully
 
Posts: 1138
Location: NC


Return to Pit Bull Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot]