Pit bite - not in the news

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Postby Veda » May 31st, 2006, 1:10 pm

As you all know Memorial Day = BBQs!
My friends god son was at a BBQ, he is ~5 years old. The owner had his pit tied up away from the party with food, water, and a crate to rest in. The dog usually lives inside he just didn't want the dog to be stuck in the house all day.
After the owner and all the parents told the kids to stay away from the dog they repeatedly teased it. They would run up to it and run away real quick. Well one time her god son got caught up in the chain and the dog gave him a good bite on the face. 5 stitches total, he learned his lesson and is now scared of dogs for the rest of his life, but he is OK.
The owner feels horrible as it was his nephew that was bit. The dog is NOT being put to sleep since it's not aggresive, it was just being teased. The mother blames.....are you ready for this.....







HERSELF! :clap:

What a breath of fresh air. She blames herself for not watching her child and not teaching him it's wrong to tease a dog. I had to share!
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Postby kymn25 » May 31st, 2006, 1:23 pm

Yay... Someone with some sense. :clap:
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Postby SisMorphine » May 31st, 2006, 1:24 pm

Isn't it refreshing when the party at fault actually admits it??
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Postby muse » May 31st, 2006, 1:32 pm

Good for her!! :)
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Postby mnp13 » May 31st, 2006, 1:54 pm

GOOD FOR HER!

We should send her thank you cards.

It's nice to hear about people taking personal responsibility these days.
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Postby luvmyangels » May 31st, 2006, 1:56 pm

Finally someone that can take responsibility for her actions or a lack of. No offense.
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Have a great day!! :)

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Postby Marinepits » May 31st, 2006, 2:39 pm

mnp13 wrote:GOOD FOR HER!

We should send her thank you cards.

It's nice to hear about people taking personal responsibility these days.


Anyone have her address? LOL.
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 31st, 2006, 2:42 pm

Regardless of whose fault it is, the dog should have been put down. Sorry, I see nothing to be happy about here. Yes, the mother should have kept an eye on her kids, good for her for at least admiting it, but the damage is done. Any dog which bites to the point of needing stiches chose to do so of its own accord, teasing is no excuse, especially when the teasing isn't even hands on hitting or throwing things.

That, and if he boy had stitches, chalk up another pit bite to the statistics.
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Postby mnp13 » May 31st, 2006, 2:53 pm

I don't agree at all. Teasing a dog may not "justify" the dog biting, but it is inviting the behavior.

I don't understand your comment
Any dog which bites to the point of needing stiches

If a bite breaks the skin it breaks the skin (which is my definition of a "bite"), regardless of needing stitches or not.

I would also hazard a guess that the dog did plenty of barking and growling before the kid finally got bitten. Those are warning signs that someone should have picked up on. The dog did everything it could to warn the kids beforehand.

I feel bad for the kid, but the mother is correct, the bite is her kid's fault - and hers by extention.
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 31st, 2006, 4:06 pm

If a bite breaks the skin it breaks the skin (which is my definition of a "bite"), regardless of needing stitches or not.



I have had my dogs break my skin when playing tug or disc, and I moved my hand right when the dog went to bite the toy. Complete accident, but I still let out a yell, make the dog lie down, and take a break so they know. That is why to me simply breaking the skin isn't always a sure fire way to know the dog meant it. Was it a bite? Yes. Was it aggression? No. It was the dog not paying attention when playing.

Stitches? The dog is pretty serious. The face? Again, pretty serious. Tess grabbed my hand in the middle of a very heated dog fight and yanked hard, thinking I was the other dog. (As soon as I yelled OW she spit out my hand and tried to get out of the fight, so I know she was unaware until then of it being me). Even then she did not cause me to need stitches, just one moderate puncture wound, and some scrapes and bruises. That dog had to mean business if it caused a gash which needed stitches.

I would also hazard a guess that the dog did plenty of barking and growling before the kid finally got bitten. Those are warning signs that someone should have picked up on. The dog did everything it could to warn the kids beforehand.


You have NO way of knowing that.



Even with plenty of warning, even with hands off teasing, a dog should NOT bite like that. That is being aggressive, unless there is some definition of aggression which excuses the dog based on minor provocation.
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Postby mnp13 » May 31st, 2006, 4:20 pm

dogcrazyjen wrote:
I would also hazard a guess that the dog did plenty of barking and growling before the kid finally got bitten. Those are warning signs that someone should have picked up on. The dog did everything it could to warn the kids beforehand.


You have NO way of knowing that.


Of course I don't, which is why I started with "I would also hazard a guess"

Most dogs bark from frusteration when being teased. At least all the ones I teased when I was little did :oops: And when I torment Ruby and Connor they bark as well.

Stitches? The dog is pretty serious.

Riggs has tagged me twice bad enough to need stitches. Both were in training when I was using a reward tug. I'm afraid of needles so I sterry stripped them closed, but they did need stitches. Things happen with dogs, a bite is a bite and depending on how the dog grabbed on would indicate if stitches are needed.

Facial wounds often need stitches, as well done ones will minimize scarring compared to leaving even a small cut to heal on its own. I smacked my forehead with a piece of metal and the cut was just over 1/4 inch long. That would have taken two stitches (see comment above)

The face? Again, pretty serious.

kids faces are at the level of dog's faces, that's why facial bites are so common for children and lower body and hand bites are more common with adults. The dog bites what is in range.

Even with plenty of warning, even with hands off teasing, a dog should NOT bite like that. That is being aggressive, unless there is some definition of aggression which excuses the dog based on minor provocation.

I don't see continual teasing from numerous kids as "minor".

Again, I'm not excusing what the dog did, but even the mother understood that the kids were the source of the problem and not the dog. The dog doesn't deserve to die because a bunch of unsupervised kids without manners were being jerks.
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Postby Vanessa » May 31st, 2006, 4:23 pm

Well i am glad that the mom is taking responsibility for not watching her kid. Kids need to be taught from an early age how to act around dogs. Too bad that kid had to learn the hard way but some do. I don't think the dog was at fault especially as the parants had been warned to keep the kids away from the dog. I do not allow any kids to pet my dog just in case. I was always taught as a kid not to touch any dog that i did not know and i think this is a good rule to follow. :clap: :clap: Applause for this mom!!!
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Postby dogcrazyjen » May 31st, 2006, 4:54 pm

This will be my last post on this sunject, because it is all based on opinion, and I do not want to get in a fight about it.

I think the dog should be put down. Regardless of the teasing, the dog chose to bite. The mother did not bite, the owner did not bite, the dog did.

When a dog feels it can bite a person, it is a very long road to teaching it otherwise, and very few, and I mean very few, people are up to the task.

If this were my dog, I would put it down. Of course if this were my dog, I would never have tied it out unsupervised with a bunch of children, either.

Anyways, that is my opinion.
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Postby mnp13 » May 31st, 2006, 4:56 pm

dogcrazyjen wrote:Of course if this were my dog, I would never have tied it out unsupervised with a bunch of children, either.


Good point. The dog shouldn't have been in that situation in the first place.
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Postby SpiritFngrz » May 31st, 2006, 5:34 pm

SisMorphine wrote:Isn't it refreshing when the party at fault actually admits it??


I know, imagine that!
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Postby SpiritFngrz » May 31st, 2006, 5:43 pm

Some dogs are just afraid of kids. Which is why I'm sure the owner told everyone to stay away from the dog.
If this dogs lives in a home without children and the owner is responsible about it (which he/she does sound like), I don't see why this dog should be put down.

Our Annabelle was afraid of kids (maybe had a bad experience growing up). Since we are planning on kids in the near future, we re-homed her and eventually she found a home with older teenage children. The last I heard she was as happy as could be.
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Postby Maryellen » May 31st, 2006, 6:52 pm

where was the owner of this dog when the kids were teasing it?? the owner should be held partially responsible as well, since he tied the dog outside, and the dog was HIS responsibility.. when ever i have a party i keep an eye on all my dogs, and anyone caught teasing them is asked to leave, period.. if they are not leaving, the dog gets put away in a locked room that only i can get into. when i had the shure pets party sonny and jesse were locked away because i couldnt watch them 100%. the owner should be smacked in the head as well, as its partially his fault too. (and just PRAY to god that the childs mother doesnt gab to someone about what happened, and that person doesnt tell her to get a lawyer etc...) she might be taking responsibility now, but if someone gets a hold of her and fills her head the dog will be declared a dangerous dog in NJ
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Postby Red » June 1st, 2006, 12:08 am

Someone is missing what makes these dogs special.Yes, they are still dogs, but the way they should react to frustration or pain is not your average reaction.In relation to human beings.The kid wasn't beating on the dog, he wasn't causing pain or anything.Most likely plain frustration but then again is a kid doing what this one did enough to cause stress and a reaction in a pit bull with solid nerves?We can discuss that.
I can understand grabbing the kid's pants as he runs away, barking at him or even snatching a toy out of his hands and make contact by mistake but deliver a bite that caused 5 stitches is not really what I would expect from a proper bulldog.
The dog shouldn't have been put in that situation since he wasn't comfortable with what was happening.The owners should have found a better option for him and have now learnt that this dog can't be around kids in such a situation.A little late but hopefully they learnt the lesson.I do think some kids deserve a lesson as well, especially when they are told not to tease a dog.But then again they are just kids so it is up to the adults to know their dog's limit and impose manners to the kids in their home.
If we want to justify a bite there has to be a valid reason at least and not just a kid running around.

Some dogs are just afraid of kids. Which is why I'm sure the owner told everyone to stay away from the dog.If this dogs lives in a home without children and the owner is responsible about it (which he/she does sound like), I don't see why this dog should be put down.


If that is the case there is no reason to leave a dog unsupervised like that.
Responsability is to also know your own dog's limit and prevent him from getting in trouble.If your dog doesn't have solid nerves or can't make the right judgement call you don't have to necessarly put it down but at least manage it in every circumstance.Your average person don't care why a pit bull bit, all it matter is that it did.And when there is a child involved things are even worse.They are lucky it happened within the family, imagine if it happened in a front yard with many witnesses.
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Postby msvette2u » June 1st, 2006, 12:43 am

Another case of irresponsible ownership causing problems. Why was the dog at the party if not under CONSTANT supervision? Why were the kids not supervised? My kids would have been severely reprimanded should they have behaved in such a manner. They'd have been sitting on the other side of the place, if some jerk brought his dog and TIED it up!!! What are the statistics!? Major causes of BITES include male dog/not neutered and BEING TIED UP.
What if the kid had died? What if the kid had lost an eye? Glad Mom took responsibility but - the fact remains this dog did MAJOR damage to a child's FACE. I'm with Red (And Jen) I could see the dog nipping at a pantleg but directly into a childs' face??? So at the next party, then what?
Oh, and in this state, anyway, there is differentiation between a "bite" and a "severe" bite, the former is 1 wound and the latter is more than 1 or requring more than one stitch.
The former is a "potentially dangerous dog" and the latter is a "dangerous dog".
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Postby msvette2u » June 1st, 2006, 12:50 am

Oops. I meant one puncture wound (not one whole wound). Like if one tooth went in.
Anyway I just "got it" (sorry it's late) that the owner of the dog lives where the party was. Even WORSE. I don't think any dog "appreciates" a huge crowd milling around and the noise of kids playing. The dog should have been IN the house or IN the crate, not tied up outside. Geez. The last thing I'd do at some party is bring my dog into the middle of it and tie it there UNsupervised!! (where's an icon of someone shaking their head???)
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