BYB's actually helping?

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 8th, 2010, 9:28 am

On one of the group lists I'm on, there's quite a heated discussion going on about how breeding for appearance is killing breeds and you should only breed for working ability, health and temperament -appearance be damned. But in that discussion it was also mentioned that diminishing of gene pools is causing a lot of problems as well, so BYB's actually help out a bit in that they keep the gene pool broad. Genetics is not my strength, so I'm staying out the argument, but I wanted to know what you guys thought.
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Postby plebayo » January 8th, 2010, 11:26 am

so BYB's actually help out a bit in that they keep the gene pool broad.


I guess I don't understand that statement because most BYB's tend to take out of consideration hip/elbows/eyes so even if you're extending the gene pool by allowing other dogs to breed which normally wouldn't, you're still carrying on all of the bad health problems. It seems like kind of a void argument IMO. Unless I'm just not understanding the statement.

I think it also depends on the type of backyard breeder. There are some people who breed dogs as a "hobby" but do health checks/OFA etc. But when I hear BYB I don't think of a person who is responsible.
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Postby furever_pit » January 8th, 2010, 1:38 pm

I don't agree with this. They made be broadening the gene pool in a way but they are also watering down by creating generations of dogs that are not being tested for health, temperament, or working ability. These are not dogs that are typically going to be considered when looking for a mate for a tested working quality dog. Also, I doubt the BYBs have a working knowledge of scatter breeding, line-breeding, and in-breeding and the pros and cons of each. I would be surprised to meet one who could describe the direction of his kennel and his future breeding plans with any competence at all.

Irregardless, I doubt we will see responsible breeders who are doing all the health checks and working their dogs looking to mate their dogs with a BYB. If anything they are going to look for dogs that match up with their own lines and have also proven themselves to be breed worthy specimens.

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Postby pitbullmamaliz » January 8th, 2010, 4:21 pm

Alright, how about just hobby breeders who do basic health checks but may not title their dogs? Are they helping keep the gene pool broad? I can see her point that the more constrained a gene pool becomes, the more likely you are to have some problems pop up.
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Postby furever_pit » January 10th, 2010, 5:43 pm

I would not go so far to say that those breeders are watering down the gene pool as I can see how there is a need for healthy pets. Theoretically, a working breeder could purchase an older dog from such a hobby breeder and title said dog as a way to bring some new blood into their lines. But that can just as easily (maybe even more easily) be done by breeding to a hog dog - a dog that has already proven it's courage and function.

However, I would not *personally* consider a litter where one or both of the parents had not been tested in some kind of working venue. The only way I could see myself having interest in a litter like that would be if I knew the untitled dog well and liked what I saw in it.

So the potential is there, but the potential for it to be abused and for working ability to be lost is also there.
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Postby furever_pit » January 11th, 2010, 11:42 am

I had another thought....

If one wanted to broaden the gene pool couldn't they just breed to an American Bulldog who has been health tested and worked? The breeds are similar and the APBT was used to develop the AB, more recently in some lines than in others. This could be beneficial to both parties as within 2 generations of being bred back to pure ABs the puppies could be registered as ABs with the NKC under the 7/8 rule. Additionally, because APBTs are a historically tight-bred group their phenotype tends to be strong in the foundation breeding of an outcross. The only downside would be that the pups could not be registered with the AKC or UKC as APBTs or AmStaffs.

How would you feel about such a breeding? Is it better or worse than using a health-tested (but not working) APBT as a way to "broaden the gene pool"? Why?
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