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This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby furever_pit » October 16th, 2009, 4:07 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for the reminder! I'm just expressing a concern about the dangers of pit bulls. I've been told it doesn't matter what the training has taught them, they'll snap at some point. And in my mind, a dog who's been trained to bite will be better at it than a dog who hasn't. I think that point is valid.


You sound like the woman in front of me in the PetSmart line: "You know their brains swell up and by the time he's 3 he's going to maul you." Sounds like you have been the one drinking the media kool-aid ont his one. 8)
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 4:11 pm

furever_pit wrote:
Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for the reminder! I'm just expressing a concern about the dangers of pit bulls. I've been told it doesn't matter what the training has taught them, they'll snap at some point. And in my mind, a dog who's been trained to bite will be better at it than a dog who hasn't. I think that point is valid.


You sound like the woman in front of me in the PetSmart line: "You know their brains swell up and by the time he's 3 he's going to maul you." Sounds like you have been the one drinking the media kool-aid ont his one. 8)


No, I'm going by the posts that you and the other participants have presented here. The ones that say "your dog will snap at the dog park because of anything... a blade of grass dispute..." There's no input from the media or the petsmart lady in that... it's your (and by 'your' I mean the Forum) words paraphrased. And yes, a dog who has been trained to bite humans, and has a breed instinct (as you all have so forcefully asserted) to attack, is a more dangerous animal than their counterparts who are already more dangerous than other breeds... again, according to the posts here.

So, I'm simply saying... I am not comfortable with a dangerous dog who has been trained to do dangerous things when the trainers of said dogs admit they can't control their dogs 100% of the time.

I think that's valid.
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Postby mnp13 » October 16th, 2009, 4:16 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for the reminder! I'm just expressing a concern about the dangers of pit bulls. I've been told it doesn't matter what the training has taught them, they'll snap at some point.

:shock: "they'll snap at some point" :shock:

You spent a LOT of time in this thread talking about people buying into "media hype" and believing what the reporters put in their one sided stories... and then say this? :nono:

Dogs don't "just snap" any more than people "just snap." Dogs trained in bite sport are not trained the same way as dogs trained in personal protection, but responsible training training doesn't create "half baked, crazed dogs", it creates stable dogs that recognize and respond to threats.

Oh Erin! Tell our new friend how you corrected my sweet little bite work dog when you were at my house.

And in my mind, a dog who's been trained to bite will be better at it than a dog who hasn't. I think that point is valid.

It is? All dogs have teeth. All dogs bite. A trained dog knows how to target, some have had extensive grip work, but all dogs bite. I've had about a dozen live bites - not all of them from bite trained dogs. All of them involved medical care, trust me, even the dogs that weren't trained were quite good at biting.
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Postby mnp13 » October 16th, 2009, 4:25 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:No, I'm going by the posts that you and the other participants have presented here. The ones that say "your dog will snap at the dog park because of anything... a blade of grass dispute..." There's no input from the media or the petsmart lady in that... it's your (and by 'your' I mean the Forum) words paraphrased. And yes, a dog who has been trained to bite humans, and has a breed instinct (as you all have so forcefully asserted) to attack, is a more dangerous animal than their counterparts who are already more dangerous than other breeds... again, according to the posts here.

I think we're finally getting to the heart of the matter... I don't think you understand the fundamental nature of aggression. First of all, dog aggression does not equal human aggression.

Pit Bulls were bred for dog aggression, and the base instinct of the breed is dog aggression. When in drive, the underlying nature of the dog may surface, and if a spat breaks out, the Pit Bull is the one that will come out the winner. Simple fact. No one said that they "just snap" they said that they "turn on" it's quite different. The implication of "snap" is that they are insane. Far from it.

Breed instinct for Pit Bulls is dog aggression, not human aggression. There are human aggressive breeds out there, Pit Bulls aren't one of them. Most Pit Bulls aren't human aggressive, including the ones trained in personal protection.

So, I'm simply saying... I am not comfortable with a dangerous dog who has been trained to do dangerous things when the trainers of said dogs admit they can't control their dogs 100% of the time.

A "dangerous dog"? What "dangerous dog"?
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Postby ArtGypsy » October 16th, 2009, 4:26 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for the reminder! I'm just expressing a concern about the dangers of pit bulls. I've been told it doesn't matter what the training has taught them, they'll snap at some point. And in my mind, a dog who's been trained to bite will be better at it than a dog who hasn't. I think that point is valid.



I"m really new at owning a Pit Bull-Breed dog, (see Avatar), but I'm far from new when it comes to watching people discuss issues.......What people say, vs. what they _don't_ say,,,,,,at what point does that first 'step' over the lines of implied social decorum, and I have to say, you are ONE antagonistic Poster.
Yes, I know you feel as if you were 'jumped' on right off the bat, but even after all that, I read your last post, here. and dang, You seem as if you came here with one intention, and that is to argue with every single person on this forum.

And let's say, even for the sake of argument, that you felt up against a wall, or out numbered with the original topic----why not just take a step back and give everybody some breathing room (including yourself) and try to assimilate into the group/forum dynamics and at some point, 'debate/discuss' the hot topics once people got to know you, and you Them.

Yes, so many of your posts are laced with politeness, but it's ALMOST as if you came with an agenda...OR, if not that, then you yourself like to keep the pot stirred.
Look at it this way, You're the New Kid on the Playground.
You announce you're coming in to play, but with all these ideas that weren't so popular somewhere else, and then get all stirred up and defensive when the 'kids' here explain why they don't agree with you.
THE NEW KID HAS RULES --------anywhere. And that means you LEARN WHO EVERYBODY IS, how they play together and who feels the way they do, and why.

The truth is, so many of the folks here have significant disagreements with each other on several really hot topics. But the rest of us are sitting back and seeing those same people tell you the same things------so the rest of us know that THIS INFORMATION MUST BE RELIABLE, because even the people who don't always agree, DO AGREE ON THIS.
But you are so busy feeling attacked that you don't stop and see that a forum, is like any other social setting. There Are Unspoken Rules that 'new people' play by if they are to be accepted. And that does not MEAN that you are expected to agree or have the same ideas. But it does look like you' re not very adept at taking social cues------I have to wonder if this type of interaction is typical of the kind of interaction you face regularly, in the 'real life', world. MAYBE NOT.
I'm not saying you DO, but I'm just wondering if this is a usual scenario for you.... :|

either way, Try taking a step back,,,,,,,,stop scouring through every line of the posts and finding discrepancies and contradictions. And remember. WE ARE NOT ONE VOICE. Don't try to 'make your point' against' "Patsy" by pointing out what "Darla" said.

If you truly want to be a member of this forum, You can still disagree with techniques and such. But be prepared to not be pampered too much.

Now, time will tell whether or not you came here to be a part of us, or if you came here to 'take on' PBT......

If you want to flame me, go ahead. I'm not an expert in anything, and don't claim to be.
I'm just giving you a head's up.

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Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 4:45 pm

mnp13 wrote:
Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for the reminder! I'm just expressing a concern about the dangers of pit bulls. I've been told it doesn't matter what the training has taught them, they'll snap at some point.

:shock: "they'll snap at some point" :shock:

You spent a LOT of time in this thread talking about people buying into "media hype" and believing what the reporters put in their one sided stories... and then say this? :nono:

Dogs don't "just snap" any more than people "just snap." Dogs trained in bite sport are not trained the same way as dogs trained in personal protection, but responsible training training doesn't create "half baked, crazed dogs", it creates stable dogs that recognize and respond to threats.

Oh Erin! Tell our new friend how you corrected my sweet little bite work dog when you were at my house.

And in my mind, a dog who's been trained to bite will be better at it than a dog who hasn't. I think that point is valid.

It is? All dogs have teeth. All dogs bite. A trained dog knows how to target, some have had extensive grip work, but all dogs bite. I've had about a dozen live bites - not all of them from bite trained dogs. All of them involved medical care, trust me, even the dogs that weren't trained were quite good at biting.



WAY out of context. No, I was quoting what other people have been saying to me. Really... please read.
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Postby Jenn » October 16th, 2009, 4:47 pm

:goodStuff: JODY!
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 4:52 pm

I am Capt. Picard, and you are the Borg. You can assimilate me for the time being, but it won't last. lol

My normal social interactions are quite pleasant, actually. I'm involved with many reputable organizations... well, 2. And Ihave disagreements with them too. And, I get heated with them too. Sure, we all have our moments. But, none of my social circle will tell me they're an expert and I should sit back and shut up and listen to them.

I think the difference is my circle of friends is composed of people who do the same things I do... engineering... and so there is little reason to really dispute. We all recognize we have valuable skills to add to the pot. So I'm new at this whole dog thing... cool. Let's sit back and play. Thanks again, other newbie, for the reminders!
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Postby mnp13 » October 16th, 2009, 4:54 pm

I AM reading. I've been told lots and lots and lots of things in my life... I don't repeat things that I think are nonsense, you just posted "I've been told they just snap" which leads me to believe that you lend some credence to that belief, and I don't think that's much of a stretch especially considering your next sentence.

I think you need to take Jody's post to heart. Maybe take a few hours to read and learn about this forum, its members and its culture. Posting off the cuff isn't working so well for you so far; between some of your posts and some of your PM's you might want to look into what the underlying structure of the membership is.

I'm not saying that you are not welcome, but you need to take a breath.
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 5:00 pm

mnp13 wrote:I AM reading. I've been told lots and lots and lots of things in my life... I don't repeat things that I think are nonsense, you just posted "I've been told they just snap" which leads me to believe that you lend some credence to that belief, and I don't think that's much of a stretch especially considering your next sentence.

I think you need to take Jody's post to heart. Maybe take a few hours to read and learn about this forum, its members and its culture. Posting off the cuff isn't working so well for you so far; between some of your posts and some of your PM's you might want to look into what the underlying structure of the membership is.

I'm not saying that you are not welcome, but you need to take a breath.


ok, no problem. Thanks for the patience! You guys rock!

... I just feel like... maybe this isn't a good time to mention it... but I feel like if I'm supposed to let it go... shouldn't everyone else also? I mean... that's just my take. Maybe I don't know how to interact normally... but ... you know? So... lock the thread? If that's what it takes to stop the antagonistic posts aimed at me which will surely just solicit further negative responses? Thanks!
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 5:01 pm

mnp13 wrote:I AM reading. I've been told lots and lots and lots of things in my life... I don't repeat things that I think are nonsense, you just posted "I've been told they just snap" which leads me to believe that you lend some credence to that belief, and I don't think that's much of a stretch especially considering your next sentence.

I think you need to take Jody's post to heart. Maybe take a few hours to read and learn about this forum, its members and its culture. Posting off the cuff isn't working so well for you so far; between some of your posts and some of your PM's you might want to look into what the underlying structure of the membership is.

I'm not saying that you are not welcome, but you need to take a breath.



Also, I was being VERY sarcastic in that post.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » October 16th, 2009, 5:05 pm

You'll find there are very few locked threads on this forum. The staff here expects everybody to act like adults. You ruffled quite a few feathers in your first day on the forum, so it's to be expected that some of our old-timers and regular posters are a bit up in arms. If you back down a bit and, like Jody suggested, poke around a little, read some more, and get to know us, you'll find we're a ridiculously friendly bunch who will bend over backwards to help a friend.
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Postby katiek0417 » October 16th, 2009, 5:35 pm

pitbullmamaliz wrote:You'll find there are very few locked threads on this forum. The staff here expects everybody to act like adults. You ruffled quite a few feathers in your first day on the forum, so it's to be expected that some of our old-timers and regular posters are a bit up in arms. If you back down a bit and, like Jody suggested, poke around a little, read some more, and get to know us, you'll find we're a ridiculously friendly bunch who will bend over backwards to help a friend.


I'm not going to beat a dead horse, but I've been on a lot of boards where people aren't as great to each other as they are on here. Michelle (mnp13) was in my wedding...other members were invited and came to my wedding....I've spoken to many of the people on here on a more personal basis...

I own herders, not pits...that makes me an outsider...but I can tell you that NO ONE has ever made me feel that way on here...you will never find another board where members are so supportive and respectful of each other...and genuinely want what is best for the dogs...

In fact, my dog - who, again, is not a pit bull - nearly died this summer...and I will tell you that if it weren't for the members on this board, and their advice, and their support as I went through 8 weeks of injectable antibiotics and SQ fluids to fight a methicillin-resistant infection, and 8 weeks of gaping wounds on her belly, and handraising her litter of puppies, I'm not sure I'd be sane today...this board got me through that...

Take a look around...this board is special!
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Postby iluvk9 » October 16th, 2009, 5:51 pm

Like I said in your intro:


iluvk9 wrote:
Megumi-Oni wrote:So, here I am on your forums trying to test you out now. Let's see how it all works out!


Hi ya, and good luck with that. :wink:


8)
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 16th, 2009, 7:26 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:
cheekymunkee wrote:I have owned this breed ALL of my life, I know this breed like the back of my hand. I know what they are capable of and I do not want to hear that 51 years of knowledge & experience is bunk.
...I don't want every Tom, Dick & Harry to own this breed, I would prefer that 99% of the peopel who own it now get another breed & leave this one alone, they are the people who have fucked it up for the responsible people. People who think this breed is just like a poodle or a spaniel or whatever other breeds there are. People who do not understand their dog have screwed it up for the rest of us and I am not going to join in on that little melee or let it take place on this board. I am sorry but I will not let someone who has VERY limited knowledge and experience with this breed tell me that I am 'doing it wrong'. :x


This is the part where I get to say that anyone who has been doing this whole breed thing for as long as you claim wouldn't be the kind of person with the lack of class to use profanity on a public forum. I happen to know a lot of old people, and they are all classy, respectable people who use their vocabulary to communicate their ideas. So, while you claim these things, you hide behind a keyboard and I really don't believe you at all.

Second, please refrain from using profanity at all. I'm not a moderator, but "ignorant" is not profanity and I can't find it in my to respect anyone who will stoop to that level.

Thirdly, you say you don't want to get involved since there is such a strong difference in opinion, but by posting up to begin with you have indeed become involved. Just like I was told, you must either participate, or stay out of it. If you say something, be prepared to say something again because you've just become involved.

Thanks for your words though, I find them to reinforce my opinion that people are seriously motivated by paranoia and fear, and they're puppets of the media because of it.

Instead of letting the media push you around, why not stand up for yourself and your dog and say "no, I will not let you treat my dog as a scape goat just because it's been made easy. Here's proof that you're wrong." Then produce the proof. Take a video camera with you, as I do. Do anything to help expose the JQP to your wonderful animals, and when they try to react, hold them accountable!

What I'm gathering here is that most of you seem to want to hide from the fact that your breed has been DEMONIZED by the irresponsible acts of others, and the irresponsible reporting by journalists and news anchors. The ONLY way to battle that stigma is to become involved with the COMMUNITY... not just your perfect little circles of friend who all say in a backyard someplace.

Furthermore, my dog park (as commented on SPBR) is NOT 60-70 dogs running around willy nilly as they say. It's maybe a dozen, max. And when there's too many, I leave. SO, fundamentally, it is NO DIFFERENT THAN HAVING A PLAY DATE IN YOUR BACK YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't own a house, nor do I have a back yard. So, the park is my back yard... Megumi's back yard. And, with my group of trusted friends and dogs, we enjoy that backyard together.

Once again, DO NOT ASSUME I an every other idiot out there shoving a dog into a bad situation. I've DONE MY HOMEWORK.

And I will also assert... I don't CARE if you think you're an expert. I'm ALLOWED to have an opinion, and it's ALLOWED to be different. It doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't give anyone license to attack me and come out swinging with profanity, even though they're retirement age and should know better. I don't care to play the ego game here, and I'm not presuming that I know more than anyone. I'm simply asserting that my method works for me, and that's that. I joined this place because everyone assumes my dog is a pit because of how she looks. What she is on paper doesn't matter at that point. So, don't act like I have nothing to gain by participating and offering experiences and opinions.

It's so easy to have such a strong attitude when you can hide behind a computer screen. The only difference I can see is that I'd say this stuff direct to anyone, in person, and with the same conviction and passion.



Let me tell you something sugar pants before I go any further in this thread OR your post. I am an ADMIN ob this board. That means I am boss here. I will speak any way I like whether you like it or not. I dont care if you get offended, I dont care if your feelings get hurt. I could give a crap personally. How many years I "claim" to be in this breed has no bearing on my use of words you do not like. You dont know me, I dont know you nor do I care to. Ask around, peopel will tell you how long have owned these dogs, I am known on MANY boards. I dont give a smurf what you believe or how many "old people" ( by the way that will get your ass kicked for you around here) that you know, you dont know as many as I do.

Now for the rest of your dribble, you dont own this breed & you know nothing about it. I dont have to know you to know this, I can see it in your posts. Now run along, big people are talking here.
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 16th, 2009, 7:33 pm

LMM wrote:
That's because you're not reading the entire thread and getting the whole story. Try again.

I was actually saying that in reference to your post to one particular person here lol
Pipe down with all the hostility. Do you have a vein leaning outside of your forehead right about now? It's not necessary. It's a discussion.



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Postby cheekymunkee » October 16th, 2009, 7:39 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:
DemoDick wrote:See? Delusional. I feel genuine pity.

Demo Dick


You, sir, have an amazing capacity for taking yourself WAY too seriously sometimes. And, your ego is astounding! Are you sure you're not the delusional one? :D

Really though. I'm done. I'll concede the point that I need to be extra cautious with my dog, even more so than I already am. And, it may be consolatory to know, I'm re-evaluating my dog park experience.

Since I'm volunteering with the park, I plan to motion for private sessions at the park for pre-determined times and durations. I plan to propose that the park be opened outside of standard hours for those who want to socialize their dogs in a more controlled environment with a smaller, more easily mobile group of us who already trust each other, etc. I do not have a back yard, and I'm not one to solicit time in someone else's personal space. So, I see this as a sort of compromise that allows me to continue enjoying the relationships I've built, while promoting a safer and more communally relaxing socialization experience.

Now, with that said, please offer constructive feedback for how I should go about this. I realize special consideration should be given to what kinds of rules, etc we should adopt for this proposal... I'm open for constructive feedback on it. Really.



I think this could be a good idea, I wish you luck with it
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Postby amazincc » October 16th, 2009, 7:44 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Holy hell, will you people please ACTUALLY READ what I'm doing instead of attacking me on an ASSUMPTION!

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:


Hey... haven't been on much lately, for personal reasons, but I DID read all your posts so far just now. :wave2:

So, about dog parks and Pit Bulls (and "training the dog-aggressive instinct out of them"... lol) - my own experiences are as follows: I have three dogs (14 year old female/spayed Border Collie mix, 16 months old male/neutered Pit Bull and 6 months old male/neutered Pit Bull) who, for the most part, seem to genuinely like each other and enjoy spending time together. All three were/are heavily socialized around people and other animals... all three KNOW that I'm in charge.
My dogs scuffle on occasion... over an old bone, a certain ball, sometimes nothing (that I can see, anyway). :|
We've had one serious altercation between my older Pit and my Border Collie, over a favorite tennis ball, but I was able to separate them quickly and without anyone being hurt badly. And, btw... the Border Collie STARTED it. :wink:
Now, we had been playing "fetch" w/this same ball for months and all was good. I don't know what happened on the day in question, but all hell broke loose, and nobody was more surprised or dumbfounded than Yours Truly when I saw my usually mild-mannered, heavily-socialized Pit Bull trying to put a serious hurtin' on the Border Collie after he felt provoked. :shock:
Luckily my word counts for something around here, and they both stopped fighting immediately after I intervened.
As I type this, both of the Pit boys are confined to their crates because a serious snark-fest ensued about 20 minutes ago... someone eyed a bone that the other one had... and BAM! - it was ON. :rolleyes2:

We have our own "dog park" out back... my yard is huge. My dogs know each other well. They live/sleep/eat/play together just about 24/7. However - certain situations definitely call for separating the three of them (as I am beginning to realize), and I do see crating/rotating in my future... especially w/the boys. They are both very much Pit Bulls, and they do require very strict and vigilant supervision during one-on-one interactions lately. And even though I knew from the get-go that this might become a possibility it still saddens me to some degree... but I respect the breed enough to recognize their limitations/abilities when it comes to dog aggression, and I am determined to do right by them instead of trying to "out-train" the instinct that was bred into them, for the sake of some rainbows-and-unicorns-my-dogs-will-get-along-if-it-kills-all-of-us fantasy.

So, what I'm trying to tell you in my very own long-winded way... owning a Pit Bull is serious business... owning two (or more) who don't like each other takes dedication, organization, and a certain willingness to "make it work" at home.

What in God's name would possess me to take a potentially dog-aggressive dog to a dog park when I already know what's in his/her DNA??? Imagine if my Pit had been provoked by a strange dog rather than my Border Collie (whom he really IS generally very fond of)???

My dogs are obedient enough to be around each other at home, for most of the time. They are absolutely awesome around people and other animals all the time (we have three kittens who are well-loved and respected :lol3:)... am I ever going to take my chances at a dog park??? Hell NO!
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 16th, 2009, 7:46 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for your words though, I find them to reinforce my opinion that people are seriously motivated by paranoia and fear, and they're puppets of the media because of it.
And again, you tread on very thin ice here... no one here is paranoid. We are realistic.

I didn't read past this because I'm seriously not interested. First, you can say that I must sit back and take abuse from someone, but when I retaliate, I'm the problem? Nope. I won't stand for that.

Thin ice? Wasn't it you who said if you can't take it, don't dish it? How's aboot some consistency.

How do I turn my word filter on? This I didn't realize was an option. Thank you for pointing it out. However, I am one who has been kicked around all my life, and I've settled into the routine of if you want my respect, you have to earn it. Your forum? Ok, I'll apologize for my words towards your dear Debby. Really, I'm sorry. However, I do not, in fact, have to respect her simply because she's popular and I'm not. That's unrealistic.

In the future I'll be happy to address you as "Your Imperial Majesty" if you like, but I'm just going by the standard a lot you have set... being able to TAKE what you DISH. If that standard only applies to a select few, please inform me who those individuals are so I know who's butt to kiss, and who to give the bird to.

Thanks!


You dont have to respect me, but you DO have to respect my authority on this board and any one else's whose name appears in red. Disrespecting us will get you removed toot sweet . In other words, dont smurf with me. You wont like the results. And stop it with the dumb sacrcasm, it has gotten VERY old VERY quickly. Cheeky dont play
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 16th, 2009, 7:52 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Thanks for the reminder! I'm just expressing a concern about the dangers of pit bulls. I've been told it doesn't matter what the training has taught them, they'll snap at some point. And in my mind, a dog who's been trained to bite will be better at it than a dog who hasn't. I think that point is valid.



WHAT??????? talk about believing the hype!!! :rolleyes2:
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