Me no likey!

This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby pocketpit » October 15th, 2009, 8:46 pm

Amen Debby!
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Postby call2arms » October 15th, 2009, 9:13 pm

Expect a Golden to retrieve, expect a Pit Bull to fight. It's that simple, and I wish every pit bull came with a manual explaining that... It's not anti-pit bull, it's not pro-bsl, it's just the reality. They're not just any other dog, they were bred for years and years to kill their own kind (sounds mean and anti pit bull, right?). That's what they are. Respect it, and act accordingly.

What's said on this board may be repeated over and over, but every time I hear of so and so's brother's pit bull almost killed the other dog of the household, the dog had to get his eye removed, the brother is thinking of euthanizing the pit bull, can't have it around kids... I tell myself, here's someone who hasn't heard the drill, or chose to ignore it, and look where it ends... That just created more hype, quite a few people who don't like pit bulls anymore, all sprouting from a dog fight that could have been prevented, all because the owners chose to ignore their dog's nature and not take precautions.

No amount of training will makes dogs loose, at any distance, stop dead in the middle of a serious fight, let alone one that a powerful, tenacious dog participates in.
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Postby LMM » October 15th, 2009, 9:31 pm

cheekymunkee wrote:I have not read all of the posts in this thread because they are too long and I am too tired. BUT I see a HUGE difference in opinion & frankly, it is because we own pit bulls and you own a boxer mix. Step into my world for a few days & you will wholeheartedly change your mind. I have 2 pit bulls & one spitz mix. All have been heavily socialized on leash & in controlled environments ( friends dogs, no dog parks for ANY of my dogs, bull breeds or not). I do consider Munkee to be a breed ambassador, he is not locked away, he is not hidden from the public, he is just not allowed (nor does he WANT to) play with other dogs. He is around people all of the time, those he knows, those he does not. He loves all of them & they love him. I care about the way he is with HUMANS of all ages & sizes, I could care less if Rover likes him or not. He is from a cold breeding, he has been to numerous dog training classes & has met many many dogs. He was always fine with all but the pushy ones, he got snarky but that was the extent of it. He was that way for 3 years.


He is now almost 10 and will kill or try to kill ANY dog who crosses his path save my spitz mix and he wold kill her in a heart beat if he didnt know I would take his head off. That is not my fault, that is not his fault, that is his heritage, his genetics, his breed. That is who he is, that is what the TRUE pit bull is. Yes, many true pit bulls get along with other dogs, some get along with all dogs, but it is NOT to be expected. If you are going to own this breed you need to know and be prepared for the fact that this dog could possibly, without much warning ( unless you know what to look for) go from playing chase with Fluffy to snapping her neck. A water dish can start a fight, a blade of grass, a look, you name it. My dogs have scuffled over air.

I have owned this breed ALL of my life, I know this breed like the back of my hand. I know what they are capable of and I do not want to hear that 51 years of knowledge & experience is bunk. I do not perpetuate stereotypes, I tell the TRUTH about this breed & I do not sugar coat it. People denying their dogs breed are what have gotten the breed to the point it is now. People who deny that their dog can and will kill another dog and not even think twice about it. Frankly, those are the people who I wish would leave my breed alone. You can believe what ever you want to believe, that does not make it so. My dogs are NOT problem dogs and I resent the implication that they are, they are American Pit Bull Terriers in EVERY since of the words.

I represent my dogs, I fight for my dogs, I have been fighting BSL for many years & I continue to be active in the fight. I also fight irresponsibility with this breed. THAT is why this message board and others like it exist, to teach people HOW to be responsible pit bull owners. We have to be BETTER owners than the average Joe because of our breed of choice. I dont want every Tom, Dick & Harry to own this breed, I would prefer that 99% of the peopel who own it now get another breed & leave this one alone, they are the people who have fucked it up for the responsible people. People who think this breed is just like a poodle or a spaniel or whatever other breeds there are. People who do not understand their dog have screwed it up for the rest of us and I am not going to join in on that little melee or let it take place on this board. I am sorry but I will not let someone who has VERY limited knowledge and experience with this breed tell me that I am 'doing it wrong'. :x I raise my dogs the way my father & my uncles taught me how to raise it, they apparently knew what they were doing & quite frankly, so do I.

I happen to like my dogs just the way they are, I do not care if someone thinks they are are problem because they are who they are. I KNOW better, I KNOW what an amazing breed it is and I KNOW what it is capable of. You need to understand this breed a lot better before you advocate changes



Freaking excellent post.
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Postby mnp13 » October 15th, 2009, 9:52 pm

Megumi-Oni wrote:Am I the only one who finds it humorous that someone would quote 'Murphy's Law' in a scientific context? I guess I didn't preserve that context, but I'm not going to govern myself according to the paranoid cynicism Murphy's Law is based upon.

I'm quite sure that his point was that the day that a fight breaks out will be the day that you are least prepared to deal with it - hence the "Murphys Law" reference. I'm not so sure that's paranoid, it's just one of those things that always "seems to happen" like when you get your first flat tire ever when you are already late for an important meeting.

Or... when the only Pit Bull in the class (mine)... that is already under the microscope at the dog training club decides to break his down and not only leaves the ring, but decides to run through a puppy class so that everyone can have holy freekin temper tantrums.

Craps always seems to happen when you are least ready to deal with it.

Megumi-Oni wrote:I must assert that just because you don't agree with my opinion or approach, doesn't mean I don't 'understand the ramifications' of my opinion or approach. Just because my opinion isn't popular, or doesn't match yours, does not in any way mean you have a right to think, or smoothly imply, that I'm ignorant... or by your words "don't appear to fully understand what you're dealing with."

Though I hate to jump ahead, in a later post you say
Megumi-Oni wrote:Even the meanest dog can be trained out of their instinct to kill.

And, well, I have to agree that it really doesn't seem that you fully understand what you're dealing with. Dog aggressive dogs aren't "mean," they are dog aggressive. It is a fundamental part of their nature, that doesn't make them "mean" or "nice."

Riggs would tear into Liz's dog Inara without a second thought, we have it on video in another thread. She wants nothing more than to play with him, he wants nothing more than to chew on her. They both want to "play" but his definition is quite different from hers - but they have been out in my house together. She was in a down, and he pretended she didn't exist. If you want to name an emotion, he'd be "happy" to chew on her, but that doesn't make him "mean."

The instinct never goes away, as a trainer, you can teach the dog to control it. As a handler, you can enforce that control; but the instinct is always there and without continued training and work the behavior can and will resurface.

Megumi-Oni wrote:So, with that said it seems like many of you seem to be convinced that you want to live your life with your dog in such a way that you succumb to the paranoid sensationalism created in the media from irresponsible dog ownership. The aftermath of the human element when we 1) do stupid things with the more aggressive breeds and 2) allow ourselves to be drawn to fear-mongering media reporting techniques. I don't choose to allow the bad PR to dictate how I socialize my animal, simply put. If that's how you want to operate... go for it. You have that right. But to imply I'm being irresponsible because I don't agree with your motivations is simply wrong.

Huh? Paranoid sensationalism? I do agree that 99% of the problems surrounding this breed are due to mis-management by irresponsible people, but that doesn't mean that the underlying issues aren't there. A mismanaged dog aggressive dog is still dog aggressive, it just shouldn't have been out running the streets.

It's funny you mention doing "stupid things with more aggressive breeds" in one sentence and then tell us all about bringing your Pit Bull mix to a dog park. Because, yes, Pit Bulls can be considered a "more aggressive breed."

Megumi-Oni wrote:It's up to the responsible owner to make sure the bad situations are avoided, but that's no reason to stay at home. I believe the reward of a more compassionate and understanding community is greater than just being able to own a dog at home. I believe the reward of lifting the 'aggressive breeds list' from insurance companies and leasing companies so that I can get an apartment anywhere starts with letting the community see how my dog interacts, etc. If we're going to make change, we can't sit back and stay within our own little walls. We have to reach out to the community.

I'm missing where anyone has said that we should sit at home on the couch with the door closed and the curtains drawn. What has been said over and over is that Pit Bulls don't belong at dog parks, and they don't belong in any situation where they might end up the target or cause of more legislation. It doesn't matter who starts a fight, a Pit Bull will end it, and will be blamed for it.

Many of us have our dogs out in public all the time. There are a number of threapy dogs on the board, a lot of us have earned titles including conformation, obedience, agility and other sports. We are out there with our dogs - but not letting our dogs run loose in packs at dog parks.

Megumi-Oni wrote:I believe in the progress I'm making, and I believe you should recognize that my efforts are in good faith and have yielded positive results for everyone.

I think your progress is great! However, when Joe Idiot Owner opens the gate at the dog park and lets his uncontrolled, rude, dominant dog come flying up to your dog and blind side her - all of your positive work will be down the tubes because your "Pit Bull" will have just gutted a "poor innocent fluffy dog who never did any harm to anything in its entire life."

Megumi-Oni wrote:But, when we can all step outside our own fear and paranoia, we can all begin to make the same progress with other animals.

Fear and paranoia? How is it paranoid to know my dog, accept his limits and plan his and my life accordingly? Where is the fear?

pitbullmamaliz wrote:As I am unable to pinpoint exactly what type/style of dog sets her off, she doesn't get to meet other dogs out in public. Does that make me a bad owner because I don't train train train to the point where simple obedience over-rides her anxiety? Maybe.

No. Because at some point even the best trained dogs in the world slip up. There is nothing wrong with being prudent. Random people at the dog training club get upset when I don't want their dogs to meet my dog. But I don't want every person I see to walk up to me and hug me and get in my face, why would I want their dog to get up in my dog's face? I don't know them, I don't know their dog, I don't know how they handle their dog, if that dog has any manners, or anything else. Cleo used to "sneak attack" other dogs, pretend to be friendly and then bite them in the back of the head. I've seen other dogs do the same thing. Thanks, I'll keep meet-n-greets to a minimum.

Megumi-Oni wrote:I see little difference in taking a dog to a park versus having play dates with different owners / dogs in a back yard someplace. In fact, by your argument, a dog park is a GREAT way to get something new each time and do exactly what you suggest!

Let's see... when Liz comes to visit, we take Inara, Connor and Ruby out to run and play together. Then we swap and let Ruby and Riggs run together. When we're at my parent's house, Ruby, Connor and Emma are out together or Ruby, Riggs and Emma. Different houses have different dogs and different small groups - but there are never more than a handful, there are rarely more dogs than people and we are all within close proximity.

I fail to see how that is anything like a dog park at all.

Megumi-Oni wrote:As far as our park... it isn't a run of the mill park. There aren't a whole lot of things to have a dispute over. Water dishes? There's at least 9 of them. And I've never seen any animal get territorial over one of them in the months I've been going. Tennis balls? Ok. There's a million of them. Again, never seen a dispute over one. It's basically just a big, open area with a fence around it. And each person using the park knows the rules, and those rules are there to protect the animals and their owners. We all understand that.

I've literally seen dogs get snarky over nothing. As in nothing. You've never see that? A couple of dogs are just hanging out, then out of nowhere they just flip out and start in on each other. No, not to the point of blood and gore, but snarky/bratty with two dogs that know each other may not have the same results when it's between two dogs that don't know each other.

Do you have a test/evaluation before you join? I'm being serious. They are putting dog parks in my city, and there is a suggestion that to be a member people will have to take obedience classes and pass tests.
Michelle

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Postby madremissy » October 15th, 2009, 10:00 pm

Freaking excellent post.


X1,000,000,000

I can NOW say that I understand it completely. Two years ago I would have been not saying the full truth. :nono: I can honestly, whole heartedly say that I understand every word of her post. Thank goodness there are people on this board who do not sugar coat anything and tell it like it is. I believe if more people would just do their homework before getting any kind of breed of dog. I also wish that people would accept any kind of breed for what they are. Doesn't mean that any one of them is better than the other and any breed should be discriminated against. I had to learn to know my dog. Not just my pit bull but my shih tzu to. Not every dog is made from a cookie cutter just like every person is not the same.

Sorry if this doesn't make sense I just had to say something. :dance:
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Postby DemoDick » October 15th, 2009, 10:19 pm

There have been some really excellent, rational posts in this thread clearly illustrating why dog parks are a bad idea and especially so for Pit Bulls. I suspect however, that they are going to probably fall on deaf ears. The OP appears to be a "believer," and no amount of good, solid information based on practical experience is going to tear down that particular wall. She believes in what she is doing, is completely convinced she is correct, and refuses to even consider the possibility that she is wrong, despite decades of experience to the contrary laid out right here in front of her.

Hey, if you want to argue that boa constrictors can be "trained" to socialize with rodents, that's cool. But you might want to listen to people who own and live with the things before you act condescendingly towards them. Besides, condescension only works when one knows what they're talking about.

(mods-See how nice I'm being this time? I didn't act anything like I do in real life. I deserve a cookie. :) )

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Postby madremissy » October 15th, 2009, 10:24 pm

(mods-See how nice I'm being this time? I didn't act anything like I do in real life. I deserve a cookie. :) )

:swoon: :wink:
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Postby call2arms » October 15th, 2009, 10:38 pm

*pats Demo on the back* Yes, you are being very good today.
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Postby cheekymunkee » October 15th, 2009, 11:17 pm

I got your smurfing cookie.
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 15th, 2009, 11:26 pm

*click*treat*

8)
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Postby maberi » October 15th, 2009, 11:32 pm

A really informative thread and pretty much everything that could be said has been said. The only thing I will add is my own personal experience

I was very new to owning dogs a few years back. I adopted my first bully breed during that time (god only knows what Yoda was mixed with). Yoda was the most laid back dog. Got along with every dog you introduced him to, loved people to no end and when I first adopted him, I took him to the dog park to socialize with other dogs. Months went by without a problem.

One day in the winter time we were walking through the woods at the park with Yoda off leash. I slipped coming down a trail and when I stood up, Yoda was gone. I started walking off towards the end of the woods to the open field where other dogs were and I heard people screaming. I started to run to the opening and when I rounded the corner I saw Yoda with a Border Collie on the ground. Yoda had the dog by the throat and the dog was screaming for its life while other dog owners were standing there dumb founded not knowing what to do. I grabbed Yoda as fast and I could and did everything I could think of to get him to let go. Now when I say everything, I mean everything someone not prepared for that situation would think of when all thought goes out the window (pulling him from the dog, trying to pry his mouth open with my hands, screaming his name, hitting him etc..) and NOTHING worked. I'd read numerous threads about using a break stick or choking a dog off, but in that moment, when it actually happened, I couldn't remember anything. I honestly never thought I would need any of that because Yoda was the sweetest dog I had ever met. I can't even begin to explain how quickly he moved, how strong and tenacious he was in that moment (I had never seen that in him in my life). Sometime during the struggle Yoda finally let go. Why, I'll never know, but it certainly wasn't because I made him let go.

As I pulled Yoda away I looked at him. His eyes were bulging out of his head, his mouth was chattering from adrenaline and stress, blood was streaming from his face but he was still trying to go after the other dog who at that point, had run off to its owners. After dragging Yoda back to my truck, I spoke with the owners, checked to make sure the other dog was ok (luckily it was still alive and not too badly hurt) and asked them what happened. Apparently Yoda had come out of the woods with a stick in his mouth, the other dog ran up and grabbed the other end of the stick and the rest is history (note he had never shown any possession issues prior to this in all the times we had been at the park).

Knowing what I know today about the breed, I can't even begin to tell you how foolish and stupid I was for putting him in that situation. Not only did I ruin him that day (from that day on he would go after another dog for a dirty look alone) but I contributed to the poor outlook of the breed that you speak of in many of your posts. Everyone in the park that day didn't see the wonderful, sweet dog that I knew and loved, but rather the crazed pit bull that they hear about in the news on a daily basis (remember Yoda was probably a mix of some bully breeds, but that day was considered a "pit bull").

Did I stop socializing Yoda with other dogs that day? No, but he had a VERY select group of dogs who he was able to play with and the sessions were moderated in our yard or a friends yard where we could keep them as safe as possible.

I hope you don't learn the cowboy way that Demo speaks of and instead take the wonderful advice that others are giving you for what it is. The advice is only for your benefit as well as the benefit of the breed.

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Postby kera09 » October 15th, 2009, 11:49 pm

I took Ava to a dog park when she was about 7 months old, she did great. I thought she was a very dog friendly dog. But one day we had an old foster puppy come to visit, she had grown 3 times in size. We left ava out, because we thought she was the best around other dogs. Ava had her tail up high, hackles raised and teeth bearing, from that point on i knew i owned real pit bulls and i needed to be cautious. My sister in law had a terrible accident between her own dog and a foster of hers. The girls were seperated by a baby gate and she was handing out treats (as she always had) and all of a sudden the foster knocked down the gate and the 2 were immediately in a fight that took her at least 4-6 minutes to stop. The foster dog wouldnt focus wouldnt stop, her own dog made eye contact with her but was fighting for her life. Her 13 yr old daughter had to grab the metal dish rack and hit them a few times before they could seperate them. Lola (foster) was as sweet as could be with people and some dogs and loved my sister in law so much it was sickening, but she didnt respond during this fight. We flew over there and it looked like a murder scene blood covering the walls and nina (her own dog) fighting to stay alive with a puncture wound so deep you could see her bone and a massive bite wound to her neck that was 1/4 of an inch away from an artery. Lola was euthanized after 10 days, which was the hardest decision she had to make,but she just couldnt chance that again. Ever since then im very cautious about who, when and where my dogs socialize with other dogs. If you own a pit bull you have to know what they are capable of!!!!
P.s.sorry no paragraphs
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Postby furever_pit » October 16th, 2009, 7:14 am

When I first got into Pit Bulls, which really wasn't that long ago just 2 or so years, I thought a lot like you. I took Dylan to the dog park and I was curious about the possibility of breeding dog aggression out of these dogs. Now, you won't catch me doing either of those things.

Dylan was 1 when I got him and he was well-behaved at the dog park. I was always so impressed with how he would come tearing at me from across the park as soon as I called his name. Then, one day it wasn't okay anymore. Dylan got into a fight with a Weim over a frisbee. It sucked. Luckily for me, the other dog's owner recognized that her dog was at fault for getting snarky. That was when I really started to pay attention to my dog and how he felt about other dogs. He is dog reactive and will not hesitate to fight with a certain kind of dog when he has the opportunity. The end result is that Dylan gets to play with a small handful of dogs - most of them are submissive females as that is the group he works well with. For now, he is good with my male puppy but I expect that will change (partially due to the fact that there is a bit of DA in my pup's lines).

But, my Dylan is STILL a breed ambassador. He goes to parades, town festivals, PetSmart, Home Depot, etc etc etc with me all the time. He is a well trained dog who loves people. That is enough for me. I don't care that he doesn't like other dogs and I can appreciate the fact that the qualities that I love about him are also those qualities/attitudes that play into his dog reactivity. Fine, that is the whole package and I love it. I don't believe that my dog needs to go to a dog park to be a breed ambassador, that's small-picture thinking IMO. When you have a dog reactive dog that you can down in the middle of the street while you go catch your neighbor's dog for her, then let me know what your neighbors think about your Pit Bull cause that is going to impress more people than letting it run around willy nilly at a dog park anyway. Doing obedience in a public setting, like a park, is also a great way to represent the breed.

JM2C.
There have been some great posts in this thread!
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 9:13 am

TheRedQueen wrote:
I see little difference in taking a dog to a park versus having play dates with different owners / dogs in a back yard someplace. In fact, by your argument, a dog park is a GREAT way to get something new each time and do exactly what you suggest


Hmmm...well, for starters, I don't have upwards of 50-60 dogs in my backyard when I have playdates. Yeah, most of the dog parks around here are less than an acre (usually smaller than my backyard which is 1/2 acre)...and on any given day there might be 75 or so dogs running around willy-nilly. Not exactly the same thing as having a few hand-picked dogs and friends over for playtime. :|

The dog beach in our area...overrun with dogs and owners on the weekends...crazy...just shoulder to shoulder on a small strip of beach.

Just for the record...I don't use dog parks, and I don't have APBTs...my guys are mainly herders...and they HATE dog parks. ;)


You're assuming much here, my friend. I usually don't see more than a dozen dogs at a time at this park. And, if there are too many, I don't go. Again, you're assuming much without regard to what may actually be the case, and that by definition, is ignorance.
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 9:30 am

cheekymunkee wrote:I have owned this breed ALL of my life, I know this breed like the back of my hand. I know what they are capable of and I do not want to hear that 51 years of knowledge & experience is bunk.
...I don't want every Tom, Dick & Harry to own this breed, I would prefer that 99% of the peopel who own it now get another breed & leave this one alone, they are the people who have fucked it up for the responsible people. People who think this breed is just like a poodle or a spaniel or whatever other breeds there are. People who do not understand their dog have screwed it up for the rest of us and I am not going to join in on that little melee or let it take place on this board. I am sorry but I will not let someone who has VERY limited knowledge and experience with this breed tell me that I am 'doing it wrong'. :x


This is the part where I get to say that anyone who has been doing this whole breed thing for as long as you claim wouldn't be the kind of person with the lack of class to use profanity on a public forum. I happen to know a lot of old people, and they are all classy, respectable people who use their vocabulary to communicate their ideas. So, while you claim these things, you hide behind a keyboard and I really don't believe you at all.

Second, please refrain from using profanity at all. I'm not a moderator, but "ignorant" is not profanity and I can't find it in my to respect anyone who will stoop to that level.

Thirdly, you say you don't want to get involved since there is such a strong difference in opinion, but by posting up to begin with you have indeed become involved. Just like I was told, you must either participate, or stay out of it. If you say something, be prepared to say something again because you've just become involved.

Thanks for your words though, I find them to reinforce my opinion that people are seriously motivated by paranoia and fear, and they're puppets of the media because of it.

Instead of letting the media push you around, why not stand up for yourself and your dog and say "no, I will not let you treat my dog as a scape goat just because it's been made easy. Here's proof that you're wrong." Then produce the proof. Take a video camera with you, as I do. Do anything to help expose the JQP to your wonderful animals, and when they try to react, hold them accountable!

What I'm gathering here is that most of you seem to want to hide from the fact that your breed has been DEMONIZED by the irresponsible acts of others, and the irresponsible reporting by journalists and news anchors. The ONLY way to battle that stigma is to become involved with the COMMUNITY... not just your perfect little circles of friend who all say in a backyard someplace.

Furthermore, my dog park (as commented on SPBR) is NOT 60-70 dogs running around willy nilly as they say. It's maybe a dozen, max. And when there's too many, I leave. SO, fundamentally, it is NO DIFFERENT THAN HAVING A PLAY DATE IN YOUR BACK YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't own a house, nor do I have a back yard. So, the park is my back yard... Megumi's back yard. And, with my group of trusted friends and dogs, we enjoy that backyard together.

Once again, DO NOT ASSUME I an every other idiot out there shoving a dog into a bad situation. I've DONE MY HOMEWORK.

And I will also assert... I don't CARE if you think you're an expert. I'm ALLOWED to have an opinion, and it's ALLOWED to be different. It doesn't make it wrong, and it doesn't give anyone license to attack me and come out swinging with profanity, even though they're retirement age and should know better. I don't care to play the ego game here, and I'm not presuming that I know more than anyone. I'm simply asserting that my method works for me, and that's that. I joined this place because everyone assumes my dog is a pit because of how she looks. What she is on paper doesn't matter at that point. So, don't act like I have nothing to gain by participating and offering experiences and opinions.

It's so easy to have such a strong attitude when you can hide behind a computer screen. The only difference I can see is that I'd say this stuff direct to anyone, in person, and with the same conviction and passion.
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 9:34 am

mnp13 wrote:
Megumi-Oni wrote:I must assert that just because you don't agree with my opinion or approach, doesn't mean I don't 'understand the ramifications' of my opinion or approach. Just because my opinion isn't popular, or doesn't match yours, does not in any way mean you have a right to think, or smoothly imply, that I'm ignorant... or by your words "don't appear to fully understand what you're dealing with."

Though I hate to jump ahead, in a later post you say
Megumi-Oni wrote:Even the meanest dog can be trained out of their instinct to kill.



You seem to have taken that and presented it WAY out of context. What are you, Fox news?
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 9:41 am

DemoDick wrote:There have been some really excellent, rational posts in this thread clearly illustrating why dog parks are a bad idea and especially so for Pit Bulls. I suspect however, that they are going to probably fall on deaf ears. The OP appears to be a "believer," and no amount of good, solid information based on practical experience is going to tear down that particular wall. She believes in what she is doing, is completely convinced she is correct, and refuses to even consider the possibility that she is wrong, despite decades of experience to the contrary laid out right here in front of her.

Hey, if you want to argue that boa constrictors can be "trained" to socialize with rodents, that's cool. But you might want to listen to people who own and live with the things before you act condescendingly towards them. Besides, condescension only works when one knows what they're talking about.

(mods-See how nice I'm being this time? I didn't act anything like I do in real life. I deserve a cookie. :) )

Demo Dick


OP? Was that yet another sly jab at me?

I'm not a girl. I've said that before.

I'm not saying I'm right, I'm saying that I'm allowed to have a differing opinion and that your constant attacking of my differing opinion is wrong and ignorant.

I own a boa. A large one. It's a dumb animal. It will do what its instinct says to do. Dogs are smart. They can be trained. Duh. Nice try though.

I'm not being condescending at all, I'm simply standing up for myself. If that makes me condescending, then I'm afraid your ignorance is showing again.

Thanks!
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Postby TheRedQueen » October 16th, 2009, 9:50 am

Megumi-Oni wrote:You're assuming much here, my friend. I usually don't see more than a dozen dogs at a time at this park. And, if there are too many, I don't go. Again, you're assuming much without regard to what may actually be the case, and that by definition, is ignorance.


I'm going by the information you gave me (that you take your dog to a dog park) and by what first hand info I have on dog parks (the ones around me are always crowded). I asked, as did others...what is your dog park like? And you never answered...so I had to go by what I personally know. Don't tell me I'm ignorant when I had to use what I know to go by. I was clarifying MY argument...why I don't go to dog parks, and why I don't think they're good for dog-dog socialization. :neutral:

Furthermore, my dog park (as commented on SPBR) is NOT 60-70 dogs running around willy nilly as they say. It's maybe a dozen, max. And when there's too many, I leave. SO, fundamentally, it is NO DIFFERENT THAN HAVING A PLAY DATE IN YOUR BACK YARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


yeah, it still kinda is. When I have dogs over in my backyard...they are dogs that I know/trust. I know if Freckles and Fig don't get along, I can leave one in the house when we're out back. I know that Jake and Inara might have issues with the soccer ball, so I can leave one of them inside or put the soccer ball away. I know that Score gets upset when Henri steals his ball...so I can leave one of them inside. Much different than a dog park, where it's harder to rotate the troops around. If I have friends over with their dogs, I know I can trust them to watch their dogs and to know what they see...and I can trust them not to get angry at me if I step in and stop their dog from something rude/nasty/potentially dangerous.
Last edited by TheRedQueen on October 16th, 2009, 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
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Postby Megumi-Oni » October 16th, 2009, 9:54 am

furever_pit wrote:Doing obedience in a public setting, like a park, is also a great way to represent the breed.

JM2C.
There have been some great posts in this thread!


Don't go to a park, but then you say that? How do you know I'm not doing obedience drills at the park? How do you know I'm not watching my dog? How can any of you make the assumptions you're making, without asking or verifying, and still claim to be experts? Really!?

Making these assumptions without having your facts straight first is, I will say again, THE DEFINITION OF IGNORANCE. It's not a personal insult, not an attack... it's a statement of fact. And, if someone can use profanity and be given +100000000 and "frikin excellent post," then I can say ignorant as much as I want when it's truly applicable.

Really guys, I think you're assuming too much and not reading enough. I'm doing none of the irrepsonsible things you imply I'm doing, other than going to the park to begin with. I'm so done trying to convince you intolerant, arrogant, narrow minded elitists that I'm not getting my dog involved with a giant doggie cluster bomb at some public place where there are just ignorant fools haphazardly shooing dogs around. Really! Holy hell, will you people please ACTUALLY READ what I'm doing instead of attacking me on an ASSUMPTION!

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2: :mad2:
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Postby LMM » October 16th, 2009, 9:55 am

I'm scared for someone's safety :shock:
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