Vocals Removed?

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Postby Natalie » August 18th, 2009, 10:04 am

As Kera knows my husband and I have been thinking about adopting another dog. I found an ad for a 7 year old female in need of a home who has her "vocals removed." What the heck is that? Is that serious? People do that?

After seeing all the ads for $1200 pups and Gotti this and Razors Edge that and dogs out to stud, then that?!?!? :mad2:
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » August 18th, 2009, 10:11 am

Vocal cords can be cut to reduce barking. Be careful, because I know in Ohio it's illegal to own a "vicious dog" that has had its vocal cords cut. So if you're seriously considering this dog, check your local ordinances.
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Postby Natalie » August 18th, 2009, 10:18 am

Seriously? Why would anyone do that? And why would any vet agree to do that?

Our township only has ordinances for leashes and registration. Luckily, I live in the middle of nowhere (zoned agricultural) and there are very few ordinances.
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Postby plebayo » August 18th, 2009, 10:22 am

Seriously? Why would anyone do that? And why would any vet agree to do that?


Traditionally it's called "debarking" but it usually doesn't fully work. They can still go through the motions of barking and make hoarse noises. I think it's stupid personally, I'd rather train my dog to be quiet.

As to why would they agree to do that, why do vets agree to declaw cats?
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Postby kera09 » August 18th, 2009, 10:42 am

some people are sick!!! who cares if the dogs bark its what they do!! ugh good luck natalie theres tons anfd tons of dogs that need new homes
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Postby Marinepits » August 18th, 2009, 10:45 am

Well, to bring the darker side into this, hopefully the debarking WAS done by a vet. Some morons attempt to do it themselves with a metal pipe or other objects.
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Postby Natalie » August 18th, 2009, 10:47 am

Holy cow I'm gonna cry. Dont say those things when I have PMS! :(
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Postby ArtGypsy » August 18th, 2009, 11:49 am

Natalie wrote:Holy cow I'm gonna cry. Dont say those things when I have PMS! :(



DITTO FOR ME..................... :o :shock: :cry:
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Postby mnp13 » August 18th, 2009, 12:02 pm

Jill (StalkerBlueDog) has a debarked dog - done BEFORE she got him - so hopefully she'll weigh in on this.
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Postby Malli » August 18th, 2009, 12:49 pm

plebayo wrote:
Seriously? Why would anyone do that? And why would any vet agree to do that?


Traditionally it's called "debarking" but it usually doesn't fully work. They can still go through the motions of barking and make hoarse noises. I think it's stupid personally, I'd rather train my dog to be quiet.

As to why would they agree to do that, why do vets agree to declaw cats?


What if the option is declaw or rehome?
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Postby Marinepits » August 18th, 2009, 1:58 pm

Malli wrote:What if the option is declaw or rehome?


Or debark or rehome? Malli brings up a VERY good point. Years ago, I used to work with a girl who had a Shelti that barked CONSTANTLY when she was left home -- a sharp, ear-shattering bark. You could hear that dog over every other dog in the kennel at the vet. Unfortunately, this girl was renting her apartment and got constant complaints from other tenants. Finally, the landlord told her either the dog goes or she goes. They worked out the solution that the dog get debarked. She had no option because she had a really GOOD deal on the rent in a decent area of a not-so-nice city and couldn't afford to move. The girl got to keep her apartment and received no more complaints.

As much as I absolutely HATE debarking and declawing, sometimes it's a necessary "evil" in order to keep your home and/or your pet. If you're backed into a corner, what else do you do? :|
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Postby pocketpit » August 18th, 2009, 2:59 pm

My family has owned two dogs that were debarked and I personally have had one of my own done later in life when I moved out on my own. Why would anyone do it? Because sometimes there are no other options left. In my case all three dogs were terrible barkers and we tried everything else under the sun to fix the problem. The bark collars worked but you can't leave one on 24/7. Guess what, the dogs didn't give a crap that they'd been debarked. They can still bark but the sound does not carry very far. The surgery was quick, the dog had no idea anything was different.
Don't get me wrong, I think debarking should be a last resort and people need to put the effort into finding out why the dog barks and attempt to solve the problem. However if those efforts don't work and it's either rehome the dog or put it to sleep (some breeds and some dog's personalities don't lend themselves to being rehomed easily) then I think it's a viable option. The stress in my household between family members and neighbors was instantly resolved and the dogs were happier (they no longer had to be constantly corrected or yelled at).
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Postby Natalie » August 19th, 2009, 10:38 am

Wow, I had no idea it was even an option.

So are there any concerns to be aware of? Anything to look out for or be careful with? I don't think anyone knows how long ago it was done.
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Postby plebayo » August 19th, 2009, 4:57 pm

What if the option is declaw or rehome?


Rehome.

The cat doesn't have a choice in whether or not it is stuck living with you. Cats scratching things is a fact of life unless you can teach your cat to scratch on designated items. It is rare for a cat to need to be declawed due to health, if the cat has problems with self mutilation [allergies etc] I can see it, but am still not for it. If you can't handle a cat killing your furniture, you shouldn't bring a cat into your home. It's what they do.

I've tried my best to keep my cat clawing on appropriate things, but sometimes he will claw my bed or the couch. It annoys me, but I wouldn't hack his first digits off. I chose to bring him into my home.
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Postby kera09 » August 19th, 2009, 9:11 pm

plebayo wrote:
What if the option is declaw or rehome?


Rehome.

The cat doesn't have a choice in whether or not it is stuck living with you. Cats scratching things is a fact of life unless you can teach your cat to scratch on designated items. It is rare for a cat to need to be declawed due to health, if the cat has problems with self mutilation [allergies etc] I can see it, but am still not for it. If you can't handle a cat killing your furniture, you shouldn't bring a cat into your home. It's what they do.

I've tried my best to keep my cat clawing on appropriate things, but sometimes he will claw my bed or the couch. It annoys me, but I wouldn't hack his first digits off. I chose to bring him into my home.



agreed! growing up my mom always declawed our cats, i got martini when she was 5 weeks old and refused! she scratches under my bed and the dining room chairs,which i now need to re appolster (sp) she has a scratching post but doesnt like it! i have a speaker box from yrs ago thats in the basement and she lovess scratching it!!
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Postby mnp13 » August 19th, 2009, 11:28 pm

uh... It's not quite as black and white as that.

would I ever declaw one of my cats? No. However, some people choose to. It's not the end of the world, as long as they are committed to the cat and any problems that can come up after the surgery.

I have trouble when a vet just says "sure, we'll do it" and doesn't actually explain that the surgery isn't "just taking off the nails" I do have a problem with. But outside of that, well, it's an owner's choice.
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Postby plebayo » August 20th, 2009, 12:29 am

would I ever declaw one of my cats? No. However, some people choose to. It's not the end of the world, as long as they are committed to the cat and any problems that can come up after the surgery.


Well yeah, I don't care if people do it. It's their decision, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, and I certainly [and obviously] don't think it's right.

Again back on topic I don't really feel like any situation calls for debarking a dog. There are a lot of ways to train a dog not to bark and ultimately as with a cat you choose to take the dog into your home. If you live in close proximity to neighbors, maybe you should be darn sure you get a dog who doesn't do a lot of barking or find another place to live.

I would never have a dog debarked. We have a sheltie who comes into the clinic for grooming and she is debarked. It's obvious why, she has a major barking problem! However she can still do a soft scratchy bark and she's a smart enough dog that with time and training you could curb the barking. You couldn't eliminate it, she's a sheltie, she will always bark, but you can make the barking a lot less at least while someone is around. If a dog barks unattended, to me barking outside is a fair game.
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Postby Malli » August 20th, 2009, 3:00 am

mnp13 wrote:uh... It's not quite as black and white as that.

would I ever declaw one of my cats? No. However, some people choose to. It's not the end of the world, as long as they are committed to the cat and any problems that can come up after the surgery.

I have trouble when a vet just says "sure, we'll do it" and doesn't actually explain that the surgery isn't "just taking off the nails" I do have a problem with. But outside of that, well, it's an owner's choice.


thank you, Michelle.

I can't imagine how many more homeless (yes, I said homeless, if you're faced with adopting a cat you KNOW will scratch and has already been owned once, or with one at a shelter that might be a kitten and that may or may not scratch, wich would you choose?) there would be if people weren't able to declaw.
I know what the procedure is, I work at a vets. I agree its a pretty nasty procedure and not one that should be ventured into lightly, or passed as a minor procedure either, but there would be a lot more cats without homes(or worse, euthanized) without it.
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Postby pocketpit » August 20th, 2009, 11:41 am

Again back on topic I don't really feel like any situation calls for debarking a dog. There are a lot of ways to train a dog not to bark and ultimately as with a cat you choose to take the dog into your home. If you live in close proximity to neighbors, maybe you should be darn sure you get a dog who doesn't do a lot of barking or find another place to live.

I would never have a dog debarked. We have a sheltie who comes into the clinic for grooming and she is debarked. It's obvious why, she has a major barking problem! However she can still do a soft scratchy bark and she's a smart enough dog that with time and training you could curb the barking. You couldn't eliminate it, she's a sheltie, she will always bark, but you can make the barking a lot less at least while someone is around. If a dog barks unattended, to me barking outside is a fair game.plebayo


I know for myself personally, I worked my butt off to train the dog not to bark and I am not a newbie to training. With time and training I did curtail the barking however the problem was severe enough that even curtailed, the barking was still an issue. And I lived on six acres of property so proximity to neighbors was considered when I took her in. She was slated for euthanasia (uncared for dog chasing livestock in the area where she lived) and a smart, high drive dog not everyone could live with, so I'm comfotrable knowing that she enjoyed her life with me debarked vs. ending up in a freezer.

As I stated previously it's not a surgery I think should be routinely used and I think many people might view it as a surgery of convenience because they are not motivated to take the time to train, contain or otherwise work on a barking issue. I don't agree with that. However there are extreme cases or circumstances which may be very legitimate that would lead someone to have it done. It's easy to point a finger and judge someone when you know nothing about their circumstances or don't live in their shoes.
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Postby Malli » August 20th, 2009, 12:57 pm

It's easy to point a finger and judge someone when you know nothing about their circumstances or don't live in their shoes.


ain't that the truth.
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