Chris Fraize wrote:Remember, I never posted a litter or dog here for sale. There is so much more to this debate than can be posted here. Besides I type with two fingers and have a business to run. Lol Odnarb decided to make me a topic without asking me a single thing about my so called program.
Heart testing - If the dog’s heart is not 100 % (keeping the dog from working). If it is genetic the dog is euthanized .
Breeding a dog to meet conformation standards (looks)? I just don’t get it. Form WILL follow function. Trying to breed dogs based on the idea that function follows form is (to me) just unwise. I realize that this can be difficult for folks to understand.
But, I DO think these threads proved my point quite well! There was lots of support for you when you posted your excuses for not completely utilizing the science of today to evaluate the health status of your breeding stock that can't be seen in day to day working. The next breeder that isn't one of the cool kids probably won't be treated the same way.
odnarb wrote:There are tons of breeders like you that make excuses as to why they don't need to be completely responsible.
odnarb wrote:I just find it a very strange mindset when you have already produced a dog with heart defects.
odnarb wrote:The next breeder that isn't one of the cool kids probably won't be treated the same way.
Red wrote:I have a question though, totally aside from health testing..as someone who loves the breed, why do you feel you should protection train pit bulls?
I have no problem with Sch or ring sport but protection training is so not a part of this breed.
mnp13 wrote:EVERY breeder ends up with genetic defects at some point or another, it is inevitable.
Oh give me a break. I'll point out that most of the staff here actually disagrees with him. I'll also point out (again) that he has never advertised litters, tried to sell dogs or anything else.
bustersmama wrote:Maybe it is because some of the board members here have seen what has been produced and actually met the guy?
odnarb wrote:Oh give me a break. I'll point out that most of the staff here actually disagrees with him. I'll also point out (again) that he has never advertised litters, tried to sell dogs or anything else.
I am curious. If it is so terrible that I'm singling out Chris, why did you ask me to name names?
If you make yourself known in the world, and have a website for your kennel, you should probably be prepared to answer questions when you appear on various message boards for the breed. That is the nature of the dog world, and the internet.
mnp13 wrote:Like I said before, you have posted about the 'kennels that everyone loves that have dirty secrets' many times. You posted that in the first DJ thread that started just after she got Havoc. I'm sure that Chris was not on your list, and had I not come home with Riggs, he would still not be on your list.
Chris is a big boy, he can defend himself, however it looks to me like you've gone past 'questioning' and headed to 'targeting'
I'll point out that most of the staff here actually disagrees with him.
odnarb wrote:Chris is a big boy, he can defend himself, however it looks to me like you've gone past 'questioning' and headed to 'targeting'
You made yourself a name and proudly wore the title (ws it Forum Bitch? don't remember...) for the same behavior. If Chris had appeared on the forum before you got banned and the two of you got chummy, you yourself would have ripped him a new bunghole. But now that he's your friend, it's "targeting."
mnp13 wrote:And to sum it all up... I used to see breeding as a strict black and white issue. No gray at ALL, EVER. That opinion has changed to a degree.
If you only breed for yourself, then you are the only one who suffers for your own decisions.
Red wrote:Maybe it is because you got a dog from that guy and now you can't shoot yourself in the foot.
Red wrote:Anyway, either we support very little breeding done with ethic and the same standards/requirements/ethic apply to EVERYONE or we accept and even support unethical breeding.Not to health test breeding stock, no matter what fancy excuses someone comes up with, is unethical and just plain wrong. I don't know how much grey there is in there.
dogcrazyjen wrote:And while I admire Chris for his training, I am not going to suck up and agree with everything he says or does. We very much disagree on some things. I am cool with that, as long as I can say my peace.
And while I admire Chris for his training, I am not going to suck up and agree with everything he says or does. We very much disagree on some things. I am cool with that, as long as I can say my peace.
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