dilemma at work.

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Postby call2arms » March 20th, 2006, 6:12 pm

THIS IS NOT A THREAD TO DEBATE ABOUT THE RESCUE CHOICE.

This is the info I have from my boss, who has talked to the previous owners. I'm trying state facts only.

An adoption agency (whose name I will not state here) has rescued and placed a male pit bull in a home. The dog was a sweetheart at first. After a while, he started to growl at strangers. He also started to show some dog-aggression. The owners were working on the gorwling issue, and ''it got better''. They brought him to a video club and he attacked and bit someone, drawing blood.

It seems like there was no consequences, except that the owners brought the dog back to the rescue, who didn,t have room for the dog in a foster home and decided to board it my workplace, a boarding and training kennel.

First time I saw the dog, he growled at me, ears back, tail low and wagging, not showing teeth.
He can be dog aggressive (he will growl at other dogs that are a couple cages away), but nothing out of hand.
He is a cuddle bug, spends hours glued against me getting as much love as he can.
I have not seen him growl at anyone except at me the first minutes I saw him.

Now...

I am puzzled. Should I contact the rescue? Should I ask them more info about Charlie, try to do something?

I know FOR SURE that the type of training my boss gives (classic harsh choker method, throw some cookies and ''good dog!!'' in there) will not help boost the dog's confidence.
Last time I took him for a walk he heard his choker tighten and stopped, looking back at me -Are you going to correct me???

This dog is stuck in a kennel, with not too much attention (I'm the only employee, and I'm leaving in 2 weeks) and, quite frankly, a trainer who has no clue about proper pit bull temperament or the type of training needed to rehabilitate a dog like this one.

I don't know what to do . A part of me says I don't want to be responsible for the consequences of this dog biting someone in the future, but at the same time he is REALLY nice with everyone he has met so far.
:|
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Postby call2arms » March 20th, 2006, 6:14 pm

How come I can't edit all my typos? :oops:
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 20th, 2006, 6:17 pm

I'd contact the rescue but beyond that, what can you do? You could try to work with him but if he bites someone, wouldn't your place of employment be held liable? :|
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 20th, 2006, 6:18 pm

call2arms wrote:How come I can't edit all my typos? :oops:


We have temporarily removed the edit function for this forum. Now everyone has to spell like me! :)
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Postby odnarb » March 20th, 2006, 6:19 pm

Yes, something should be done about that dog. He sounds like a headline and a breed ban in the making.
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Postby babyreba » March 20th, 2006, 6:20 pm

if the dog has definitely bitten someone and drawn blood, i personally wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot-pole, as far as working with him to rescue and place him.

it's a huge liability you'd be taking on.

if i were in your position, i would probably take him to have him PTS and i'd try to make his last day as happy as possible.

good luck, whatever you decide.
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Postby Maryellen » March 20th, 2006, 6:29 pm

iwould have the dog euthanized.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 20th, 2006, 6:32 pm

From what it sounds like, she can't do that. She is only an employee of the boarding kennel, not with the rescue.
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Postby Maryellen » March 20th, 2006, 6:33 pm

then get the dog out of the kennel so it doesnt become your liability..
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Postby call2arms » March 20th, 2006, 7:24 pm

Even if the dog is in the kennel, he is NOT my liability but the kennel's boss' who is technically fostering him ( I think...). AND I have NO power over which dog is boarded at my job. It does sound simple, Maryellen to ''get the dog out of the kennel" but it isn't.

I am NOT the one to take decisions here, I am NOT the one who could put him to sleep. Putting this dog to sleep myself would be 1- stealing him and 2- euthing him without the permission of his owner, the rescue.

I tought of talking to the rescue - but who am I to tell them they shoud euth?

Hi, I work at a boarding kennel, own a pit bull and hang out on pit bull boards. I think this dog, who is a total marshmallow with me and everybody who visits the kennel, whom you've assessed and whom my boss thinks he can do something with (and make a buck out of, boarding is paid by the rescue), should be put to sleep. This is also what other people on the pit bull boards think.

Dosen't sound too convincing to me, but that's the facts I have.


My personal opinion is, there's tons of dogs who haven't bitten that are going to die in shelters, and this one may live to ban pit bulls out of my province (Quebec is RIGHT NEXT to ON).

Also, I've told my boss everything on here except the fact I don't think he's competent enough to do something good with this dog ( he thinks he'll do what he can, and that the dog needs to be adopted to very pit-savvy people ).

Anybody have ideas of how to make this possible? I mean in terms of speaking to the rescue (which is actually one person and a couple foster families, I think) and not looking like a lunatic whose opinion shouldn't be heard?...
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Postby babyreba » March 20th, 2006, 7:32 pm

perhaps you could download some solid temperament info from PBRC or somewhere and email it to them with your advice . . . i mean, you may be just some random pit bull owner out there with some breed experience, but who are they if they are just a small-time dog rescue with a couple of foster families? they are probably overwhelmed most of the time and if you handle it properly, they may well be relieved to be "let off the hook" if you will.

no rescuer in their right mind wants the responsibility of an aggressive pit bull burdening them.

perhaps they are simply unaware that this would be the right thing to do!
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Postby babyreba » March 20th, 2006, 7:44 pm

just wanted to add: you said that the first time you saw the dog it growled and behaved aggressively toward you . . . that doesn't sound like a dog that has been a total marshmallow . . . it growled at you and that's plenty of experience to go by.

this dog here was one of my fosters. while in my care, he growled at me and bit me twice. i became afraid to have him in my house and returned him to the rescue i was volunteering for at the time. he went to a "training and boarding" kennel where he was supposedly going to be rehabbed and put in his place by the trainer. his name was baby boy chance. the trainer used similar methods as you describe your boss using: choke collars, treats, etc., little socialization beyond daily training sessions.

the rescue i was volunteering for was pretty bleeding-heart and didn't believe in euthing dogs for aggression, except in extreme circumstances.

i personally have learned a lot since then and i would personally never make that kind of choice for a dog now that i know better.

within a very short period of time, perhaps a few months, this dog went from a dog that would growl and that had bitten me once to a dog that turned completely miserable and defensive aggressive and antisocial. he was not fixed or rehabilitated in any way by his training. instead, he lived an isolated life, had no real bonds left with any human being because he started to become aggressive toward the trainer, and his miserable existence was needlessly prolonged. he spent his last couple of months living alone in a kennel, instead of being able to spend his last night in his crate next to my bed, then put to sleep humanely by a vet.

during his last days, he would bite anyone who tried to enter his kennel. and he drew blood more than once.

things could end that way for the dog in your kennel. and that's truly a sad way for a dog to have to spend its life. perhaps you could explain that to the rescue who left this dog with your boss.

R.I.P. Chance. You were one messed up pup. :(

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Postby call2arms » March 20th, 2006, 7:56 pm

Thanks, Babyreba. I'll take your advice, take all my courage, kick myself in the butt and call the rescue.

How would you guys interprete a growl with closed lips, low, wagging tail and pulled back ears? My guess is fear.

When I meant marsmallow... I went to work this morning, and I was all by myself. Since the dog does not have playtime with the others, I cut that playtime a little short to spend time with him.


He spent the whole hour, on the chair with me, curled up against me, licking my face once in a while. He would wiggle a bit, expose his belly for a scratch, lick me again, press his head on my chest and close his eyes. I'm stupid for falling in love with him, and I just wish all this was a lie. [/i]
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Postby babyreba » March 20th, 2006, 8:10 pm

honestly, i know how you feel.

chance was the sweetest, most loving boy, and i loved him so much. he just had something not quite right with him . . . every once in a blue moon, he'd get weird. the first time, it was when we were on a walk. we were coming back from the park, and he at first started acting like he wanted to play, but that play turned pretty serious when he grabbed my arm and started shaking it hard, started to growl, and refused to let go. i knew to stay calm and not freak, but he scared the crap out of me and i had to flag down a verizon guy driving by in a truck to stop and help me. fortunately, when he saw the verizon guy get out of the truck, he was so happy to meet a new person that he let me go. after that incident, it was like it never happened and he wanted to love on me just like normal.

but when i got home, my jacket (which thank god was pretty thick because it was fall) was torn through the first layer and the liner. my arm was black and blue and swollen for a week. i tried to work with him, despite this first incident thinking that maybe it was a fluke or he was just playing, but he pulled the same crap again a few weeks later and this time hurt me worse, and i took pictures of my swollen arm to remind myself that he was a potentially very dangerous dog that i could not keep. even though he was a lover most of the time. :(

believe me, if this dog has a loose wire, he can be lots of trouble. sadly, i have gone through this with another dog since chance. it's horrible and it's sad and it's devastating. but it would be even more devastating to let him suffer a lonely, cold, miserable death, IMHO, than letting him go before he gets to the point of no return. at least at this stage, he's safe enough for you to offer him love and affection before it's time to let him go.

sorry you are dealing with this, i do know how hard it can be.
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Postby call2arms » March 20th, 2006, 8:27 pm

Thank god you're understanding my situation.

You can understand it's even harder to do this when I don't even know for sure the dog has bitten.

See, the rescue person got a story of ''the dog growled at the son's girlfriend'' which has turned into ''the dog bit someone at the videoclub'' by the owners to my boss.

I'll have to clear this up as well when I talk to the rescue.

It's all fishy but he did growl at me, the first time he saw me. I know that for a fact and I know it's not proper temperament...
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Postby BigDogBuford » March 20th, 2006, 8:33 pm

Any rescue that would place a dog with a bite history certainly shouldn't be rescuing pit bulls.....

This is quite the sticky wicket, but I would try contacting the rescue just to inform them and see what they have to say.
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Postby call2arms » March 21st, 2006, 2:01 pm

I just called people from my rat rescue to get some opinions, and called another dog rescue person whom we've adopted some rats to. Waiting to get her call back, and then I'm calling the pittie's rescue. This thing makes me so stupidly nervous.
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Postby babyreba » March 21st, 2006, 4:21 pm

you know, you may not be able to convince them that this is the right thing to do.

but the least you can do is try . . . as long as you don't act angrily and you can just communicate your concerns, you should do fine.

if someone had a problem or concern about a dog i had brought to rescue, i'd definitely want to hear about it, even if i didn't agree with them. and if they were respectful to me, i would return that respectfulness.

who knows, they may really appreciate and/or want the help and advice!
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Postby call2arms » March 21st, 2006, 7:06 pm

I tried calling the dog's rescue, but got no answer. I'll try again.

I did contact the other rescue, and the woman said that the person I want to talk to really ''wants to save them all''... Dosen't sound good to me, but we'll see.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 21st, 2006, 8:29 pm

call2arms wrote:I tried calling the dog's rescue, but got no answer. I'll try again.

I did contact the other rescue, and the woman said that the person I want to talk to really ''wants to save them all''... Dosen't sound good to me, but we'll see.


Ugh, not again. When are people going to learn? especially rescues who put people's lives in danger due to their ignorance? :shake:
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