The TRUTH about Lila

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Postby msvette2u » March 19th, 2006, 12:28 pm

According to the Code of Ethics ME posted, the puppies probably shouldn't have been adopted out?

A. Strong preference for puppies that have both littermates and a temperament correct dam (See ITEM 1)
B. Will not rescue the puppies of a dam of incorrect temperament.
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » March 19th, 2006, 12:29 pm

I don't know - I'm having trouble seeing why there's even an argument. No matter how much I love my dog, if my spouse is cornered and the dog lunges at me, yes, I would shoot her too (and yes, I'm licensed to carry a weapon). Would I be devastated? Of course - who wouldn't be. I just don't see how Eric could expect them to stand there and allow themselves to be (most likely) mauled, possibly killed. I know you did the right thing, don't let anybody tell you otherwise. :hug3:
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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 12:29 pm

what happened on real pitbull should stay there, this thread is about dredging up a dog named lila, and i think everyone should stay on topic with the lila story. questions should be asked about lila, the foster home , the rescue involved, but lets all leave it to the lila thread..
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Postby Jaime » March 19th, 2006, 12:29 pm

Karen wrote:
Maryellen wrote:yes i was, and i remember all that on realpitbull as well.. why this issue with this dog was brought up months after it happened is beyond me.


Probably because a few foster homes couldn't handle the dogs they were sent and Eric couldn't/wouldn't/didn't take them back. The foster homes placed some apart from Eric with PBRC help and a couple others, well, they won't be biting anyone anytime soon. This scenario isn't new and biting trouble has dogged Eric right along.

He calls his pit/catahoula merle Precious a pit bull so when she bit him everyone knew his pit bull did it.


you sure you don't have a personal agenda here with eric? i was trying to stay out of this but i have to ask
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Postby hoagiesmomma » March 19th, 2006, 12:31 pm

hey all...

I think it only fair that I intro myself in here, as well...

I'm not using my given name (as already pointed out) b/c of all sorts of nonsense harrassment...

but anyone from spbr knows who I am from my username and from the names of my dogs; Cookie, Nandie and Hoagie (RIP)...

I felt the need to add to this discussion (sans flaming and cussing which are, btw, my specialties! ahahah) b/c I feel there is a piece of information missing here that all of you deserve to know about.

I've had my own bout with human aggression in dogs (hence Hoagie no longer being with us)...and I understand how ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING it is to have to put a dog down...humanely. I also understand that doreen and brian have had plenty of experience with this in the past.

doreen...I'm sorry to have to mention this...but you can't possibly post a thread like this without being willing to offer your "audience" the entire picture.

doreen has had what seems to me a disproportionately high number of human aggressive dogs. there was anna who followed her around growling...another that doreen told me that had put to sleep before, and now Lila.

I can't help but to come to one of two conclusions here:

a. they (d&b as noel refers to them) are somehow encouraging aggressive behavior in these dogs (doreen mentioned herself being frightened and uncomfortable)

or

b. their meters are set WAAAAAAAAAY too high and they over-react


either way...I'm sorry, doreen...

you and your husband are unsuitable for the care of these largely sensitive, potentially dominant and strongwilled dogs.
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Postby Karen » March 19th, 2006, 12:32 pm

Maryellen wrote:what happened on real pitbull should stay there, this thread is about dredging up a dog named lila, and i think everyone should stay on topic with the lila story. questions should be asked about lila, the foster home , the rescue involved, but lets all leave it to the lila thread..


You asked why it was brought up now. I gave you a reason. The foster homes are not from Real Pit Bull and were banned from Eric's forum. They joined the PBRC list for help. So Eric already posted his forum, the people with Lila already said he threw multiple folks off the forum so all this is entwined.

He made another mistake with the dog and litter so he's trying to shift blame yet again. It's all relevant to this thread. After all, you asked WHY.
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Postby Karen » March 19th, 2006, 12:34 pm

Jaime wrote:
Karen wrote:
Maryellen wrote:yes i was, and i remember all that on realpitbull as well.. why this issue with this dog was brought up months after it happened is beyond me.


Probably because a few foster homes couldn't handle the dogs they were sent and Eric couldn't/wouldn't/didn't take them back. The foster homes placed some apart from Eric with PBRC help and a couple others, well, they won't be biting anyone anytime soon. This scenario isn't new and biting trouble has dogged Eric right along.

He calls his pit/catahoula merle Precious a pit bull so when she bit him everyone knew his pit bull did it.


you sure you don't have a personal agenda here with eric? i was trying to stay out of this but i have to ask


Nope I could care less one way or the other. He moved to NY so he's you NY peoples' problem now. He won't be pulling biters from over this way so I'm happy.
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Postby Karen » March 19th, 2006, 12:37 pm

hoagiesmomma wrote:hey all...

I think it only fair that I intro myself in here, as well...

I'm not using my given name (as already pointed out) b/c of all sorts of nonsense harrassment...

but anyone from spbr knows who I am from my username and from the names of my dogs; Cookie, Nandie and Hoagie (RIP)...

I felt the need to add to this discussion (sans flaming and cussing which are, btw, my specialties! ahahah) b/c I feel there is a piece of information missing here that all of you deserve to know about.

I've had my own bout with human aggression in dogs (hence Hoagie no longer being with us)...and I understand how ABSOLUTELY DEVASTATING it is to have to put a dog down...humanely. I also understand that doreen and brian have had plenty of experience with this in the past.

doreen...I'm sorry to have to mention this...but you can't possibly post a thread like this without being willing to offer your "audience" the entire picture.

doreen has had what seems to me a disproportionately high number of human aggressive dogs. there was anna who followed her around growling...another that doreen told me that had put to sleep before, and now Lila.

I can't help but to come to one of two conclusions here:

a. they (d&b as noel refers to them) are somehow encouraging aggressive behavior in these dogs (doreen mentioned herself being frightened and uncomfortable)

or

b. their meters are set WAAAAAAAAAY too high and they over-react


either way...I'm sorry, doreen...

you and your husband are unsuitable for the care of these largely sensitive, potentially dominant and strongwilled dogs.



Did you evaluate the dogs Doreen had? Hands on? The vet that Euth. the dog would have to agree there was a problem or there would be no euth. at all. Deealing with shelter pulls the dogs don't relax and show true colors for sometimes months then it's like they had a mind switch or something.

Pit Bulls with proper temps should NOT be overly sensitive or overly dominant dogs as you seem to think.
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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 12:37 pm

whatever mistakes where made with other dogs/litters is not the issue here.. this thread is about a dog named lila who was killed by the foster parent and both sides are now posting their stories.. whatever happened in the past prior to lila should not be mentioned here, as this is strictly about lila.

and jaimie- there is nothing personal going on between me and eric. if eric has any problems with other members thats his problem. this thread is for lila and the facts/stories surrounding her demise that were dredged up by a pb smiles member here.

lets all please keep the facts to this case and this case only.. any other facts for any other cases will not be tolerated on this thread..
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Postby hoagiesmomma » March 19th, 2006, 12:40 pm

Karen wrote:
Did you evaluate the dogs Doreen had? Hands on? The vet that Euth. the dog would have to agree there was a problem or there would be no euth. at all. Deealing with shelter pulls the dogs don't relax and show true colors for sometimes months then it's like they had a mind switch or something.

Pit Bulls with proper temps should NOT be overly sensitive or overly dominant dogs as you seem to think.


I'm failing to see how you addressed the main thrust of my argument with this post...

for the number of dogs that d&b have owned...and the number who were so devastatingly aggressive...

am I the only one seeing a disconnect, here?


end result here (and notice that I am NOT placing blame as per the attack on Lila)...

they just shouldn't have any more dogs.

period.
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Postby Jenn » March 19th, 2006, 12:41 pm

:nono: The whole situation and "lines now drawn" just sounds horrible.. Does something like this truly have a resolution? Sounds like mistakes were made on all levels in one way or the other, and a sad situation all the way around. I'm sure they meant well and had the best of intentions when fostering Lila. Now she is gone though, no amount of bickering and pointing fingers will bring her back.

What happened with all those puppies?
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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 12:42 pm

wasnt the other dog geneia that you are talking about now in a new home?? was that dog evaluated by a trainer and then adopted to another home per eric?

again, this thread is about LILA.. do not dredge up other instances unless it DIRECTLY deals with LILA...
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Postby hoagiesmomma » March 19th, 2006, 12:43 pm

Maryellen wrote:whatever mistakes where made with other dogs/litters is not the issue here.. this thread is about a dog named lila who was killed by the foster parent and both sides are now posting their stories.. whatever happened in the past prior to lila should not be mentioned here, as this is strictly about lila.

and jaimie- there is nothing personal going on between me and eric. if eric has any problems with other members thats his problem. this thread is for lila and the facts/stories surrounding her demise that were dredged up by a pb smiles member here.

lets all please keep the facts to this case and this case only.. any other facts for any other cases will not be tolerated on this thread..


I will just have to disagree with on this one...

I find it extremely relevant.

and was pretty much shocked that it hadn't already been addressed in such a thorough and exhaustive report.


I do agree, however, that there is no need for me to mention it again...

I just hope that anyone who was supportive of b's actions...

will take the past into consideration before allowing them another dog.

:(
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Postby msvette2u » March 19th, 2006, 12:44 pm

JennKBM wrote::nono: The whole situation and "lines now drawn" just sounds horrible.. Does something like this truly have a resolution? Sounds like mistakes were made on all levels in one way or the other, and a sad situation all the way around. I'm sure they meant well and had the best of intentions when fostering Lila. Now she is gone though, no amount of bickering and pointing fingers will bring her back.

What happened with all those puppies?


That's what I was thinking, honestly, no amount of fingerpointing is going to help and if you want to preserve her dignity or memory or whatever Eric was talking about, you would quit with the accusations and let her TRULY rest in PEACE!

Going all over the internet, to different forums, bashing each other sure isn't going to help pit bull rescue at all.
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Postby Sue » March 19th, 2006, 12:45 pm

What other dog did they PTS?
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Postby hoagiesmomma » March 19th, 2006, 12:45 pm

JennKBM wrote:and are now placed...to eric's credit...


Nope, no credit to Eric. Puppies from an unstable mother should NOT be placed anywhere.
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Postby hoagiesmomma » March 19th, 2006, 12:47 pm

Sue wrote:What other dog did they PTS?



you'll need to take that up with them.

she told me about in pm while consoling me over hoagie's euthanasia...

which was why I am not attacking her on this the way some might.

she was supportive of me...and I think I am doing the same by only stating my opinion that they just shouldn't have dogs anymore.
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Postby Maryellen » March 19th, 2006, 12:47 pm

if there was a question as to the situation of Lila, eric should have come in and removed the puppies and done an investigation.. those puppies should not have been left there if eric had any reason to believe they were in danger, and with what happened..



and msvette, the resscue code of ethics does state that about aggressive dogs the pups should not be adopted out....

the rescue did adopt out all the pups that were lila's .. hopefully their temperments will remain stellar, and that lila's temperment was due to extreme abuse hopefully and wasnt genetic.
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Postby Jaime » March 19th, 2006, 12:49 pm

Maryellen wrote:
and jaimie- there is nothing personal going on between me and eric.


i was addressing karen, maryellen sorry if you misunderstood :|
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Postby hoagiesmomma » March 19th, 2006, 12:51 pm

ME,

eric didn't know about the previous dog of d&b's...

he (and noel) questioned me on that just recently.

it's obvious NOW that placing lila with them was just a bad call.

but if he hadn't...


there would be 13 dead dogs, right now...

not one.
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