The TRUTH about Lila

This is where to talk about Pit Bulls!

Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 2:50 pm

clarity wrote:For the ones that go in the the other direction, I hope you are never walking your dog near gun-toting Brian when he's out with Satin --

-- should there be an altercation, you are guaranteed that your dog will get shot, and that people will justify it --


And another clueless post.

In New York is is LEGAL to kill a dog that is harming you or your pet. You can bet if your dog attacks Ruby I'll kill it if I am able to.

Ruby was attacked last year at a dog show and I went to the ground and attempted to draw the other dog off by stuffing my arm in its way to take the bite myself. Had the dog bitten me, Demo could have legally shot him. Had the dog gotten ahold of Ruby he could have been shot as well.

If the dog lunged at Brian and Brian was in fear for his safety he was justified. It is unfortunate, but WERE YOU THERE? Then how can you comment on what the dog was doing during the attack. The two people there say one thing, and the person who was NOT has a different version of the events. How on earth does that make sense?
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 2:52 pm

clarity wrote:ALSO, i would like to give a BIG THUMBS UP to the moderator on this forum for allowing me to post -- that shows a lot of maturity, and objectiveness. THANK YOU!


If you do not break any rules of the forum, you will be allowed to post here for as long as you want. No matter what our opinions are, the forum is about the dogs, and not personal opinions or attacks.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 19th, 2006, 2:55 pm

as i said, they were offered the full support of the forum, breed-savvy people, and a licensed veterinarian --


Where were ALL of these people when this was occuring?? Unless they were there, in the house with them at the time there is no reason to even bring it up. It adds NO value to your argument. Should one of them have called and said "hey, this dog is trying to kill me, should I sing lullabies to it ?"

And why would you NOT be given the chance to defend yourself on this board? We are adults here, everyone is welcome. Unlike YOUR board where I wsa banned before I even posted!!!! WTF??

You say YOU are being drug throguh the mud? ISn;t THAT what you are doing to these people on YOUR board? is THAT the reason I was banned? Because you were degradeing members of this forum on yours?

Crate & muzzle a snarling, snapping dog. You have HUGE balls to even mention something like that.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 2:57 pm

clarity wrote:i'm wondering, then, mary, why didn't brian and doreen tell me of this green-dot?


It sounds to me like they were inexperienced enough to not even wonder. It could mean anything, including the amount of food they get fed - which is how it is done at the riding stable I used to go to. One dot per scoop of grain. If it was red they didn't get grain they got mash.
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Postby Hoyden » March 19th, 2006, 2:58 pm

clarity wrote:what about SHUTTING THE DOOR and calling ANIMAL CONTROL?

Shutting the door was not an option when that would have meant that Doreen would have been shut in with Lila.

clarity wrote:is this humanity, to shoot a growling dog, of the breed we love?

Lila was doing more than growling - she was lunging with teeth bared and fur raised.

clarity wrote:and the murder, i am sure, didn't happen "painlessly" -- there was likely blood loss, which eventually caused death --

From the information that I was given regarding the entry and exit wounds - Lila died instantly - not from blood loss.

clarity wrote:-- what about MUZZLING, or RESTRAINING?

They do not own a muzzle, break stick or dog mace.


Enlighten me - how do you restrain an uncollared dog that is airborne & lunging at you with intent?

In order to have done that - B would have had to catch the dog in mid air, wrestled her to the ground and somehow managed to restrain her and get her into a crate. And it's likely he would have been bitten more than once in the process.
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Postby BigDogBuford » March 19th, 2006, 3:02 pm

clarity wrote:The bottom line, to me, is that you don't go shooting dogs that are acting to protect their babies. Especially dogs that don't bite.



You're right. The outcome would have been sooo much better had she let the dog bite her first. :rolleyes2:

I can just see the headline now:

"Woman mauled by own rescue pit bull!"

Good grief, I can't even believe that some the crap I'm reading in this thread. These are exactly the type of 'rescue' people that are doing so much more harm to the breed.

Dog help us all, this is why BSL is so rampant.

*stepping off soapbox*
Last edited by BigDogBuford on March 19th, 2006, 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:03 pm

clarity wrote:-- but SHOOTING her, when she didn't even BITE?


It sure sounded like she was on her way in for a bite. Again, were you there? Did you see her, hear her? My last Pit was unstable, and she made a horrible sound when she was on the way in for an attack. there was no mistaking it... she was going to kill the dog she was facing, and if you got in the way she re-directed. I love her and I miss her terribly, but she was not stable and was dangerous.

clarity wrote:as i mentioned, you know what the result would be if your dog ever got in a tift with brian's --

-- he'd shoot it dead.


Yup. And with good reason.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:05 pm

clarity wrote:what about SHUTTING THE DOOR and calling ANIMAL CONTROL?


You know what, you're RIGHT!!!!

Brian should have slammed the door and called animal control for help. Absolutely.

of course, his wife was still in the room with the dog. But saving a human aggressive dog is far more important than the safety of his wife.

Excellent point. :rolleyes2:
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:10 pm

clarity wrote:i don't think "mauling" would have occurred, had doreen left the room, and brian crated the dog --


Crated a dog that had just ben snarling at his wife and lunged at him? How exactly would he have accomplished that without being bitten?

clarity wrote:do you know how odd it is to carry a loaded firearm around the house?


No, it's not odd. Do you expect him to keep it loaded outside of his house? How about in the garage? :rolleyes2:

You put the gun on your person and then leave the house. This is not complicated. Demo is a cop, when he is getting ready to leave the house and needs to carry for some reason (for example, when he is heading to work) he puts his side arm on his belt and continues to get ready for work. It is not necessarily the last thing you do.

People who are comfortable with firearms don't think twice about having them on their person all the time. If he was in the living room watching TV at 1 am and someone broke into his home what good is a gun in a lock box in the bedroom?
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Postby Sue » March 19th, 2006, 3:15 pm

hoagiesmomma wrote:that would be because the two of you combined are incapable of replacing a lightbulb...

while I was...and still am...hesitant to attack doreen...

you guys are fair game, in my opinion.

your avatar, vicki is horrendous and speaks volumes to your character...

again...shame on you.

as for you sue, you are without fail the most contrary individual I have ever come across.

I sincerely hope you find some small amount of happiness in your daily life...


Now was that really necessary? It always seem to come down to personal attacks with you.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:18 pm

SpiritFngrz wrote:
Wow, I didn't know I was supposed to just "get bit" and see what happens with that.
You should all know that the next day when I spoke to Eric, of course I was hysterical- and he told me that getting bit was "no big deal" because once he accidentally got bit while breaking up a female/female dog fight.

I've had three live bites, and I don't recommend that to ANYONE. Any perons who has been bitten and says it is 'no big deal' has never actually had a serious bite..

SpiritFngrz wrote: How is accidentally getting bit in the middle of a dog fight the same as getting attacked by a human aggressive dog?


That is called 'redirection'. I've seen it in bitework, where a frusterated dog snaps at / bites his handler. It is unacceptable to me.

Riggs got frusterated during OB today and started biting my pant leg. He won't be doing that again because I find it to be completley unacceptable behavior, for any reason.

that said, he was not doing it with intent to hurt me, it was an action due to frusteration. Quite different than a dog turning on you to attack you.
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Postby Hartagold AmStaffs » March 19th, 2006, 3:19 pm

clarity wrote:After all the deflection, games and lies, Lila was shot, and she didn't even bite anyone.


Sorry but any pit bull that TRIES to bite should be put down. Defending her babies? Get serious. I've had dog show meetings in my house with a mom with newborn pups, and they all passed the pups around while mom was getting petted as well.

I've had rescue dogs which seemed ok at first, while they were sick and weak, but once they gain strength and feel better, you start to see their true temperament. That's exactly what it sounds like here- once she felt better, she started getting nasty. Babies or not, there is no room for a pit bull that will corner someone aggressively or lunge to attack - whether contact was actually made or not is beside the point.

The reason this breed is in trouble is because of people making excuses for crappy temperaments. It's not like there aren't a thousand other homeless pit bulls that need attention.....waste time and resources investigating the shooting of a manbiter :|
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:19 pm

Maryellen wrote:if the shelter was sooo pit savvy eric, then they should have never released lila to your rescue being that she was showing signs of aggression supposedly.


B-I-N-G-O
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:22 pm

clarity wrote:if you think male/male households don't work with pits, maryellen, i have lost all interest to argue with you -- your breed knolwedge just suffered a serious blow with this statement --


I disagree wiht the statement that they should never be done, but they DO present higher chances for aggression and other problems, and therefore higher chances of problems down the road. the responsibility level needed by the owners is much higher than a single dog home or a home with dogs of the opposite sex.

YES, rescues make acceptions for experienced owners, and to me, that's fine. However, those adoptions are the ones you keep quiet because they should NOT be the norm.
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Postby cheekymunkee » March 19th, 2006, 3:26 pm

odnarb wrote:
Purple wrote:I think at the puppy part mentioned in Hoyden's findings there may have been 30-40 puppies that spbr was adopting out. I am pretty sure there were multiple litters.



:eek1:

Image

:bs:

Image



That's what I'M screaming!! These are no "socilization events", this is a FLEA MARKET for puppies.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:28 pm

SpiritFngrz wrote:Also everyone please take into consideration that we did not just go on with our daily lives after this incident. NO ONE felt more horrible about this than us. Ask our parents- we were INCONSOLABLE.


Cleo bit me three times and my father three times. The last time she bit my father she got his palm with his thumb in her mouth and shook her head. When he got his hand out of her mouth he could see through his hand. After surgery, and five years passing he still does not have full use of his thumb. We still mourn that dog, we still second guess the decision to put a happy, healthy dog down. We had offers from people to take her, but decided that the redirection problems with her were too dangerous to risk. Had the world existed with no other dogs she would have been perfict. but she needed to be put down, and was put down with all the love that could be shown to her. My dad buried her in a sunny part of the yard because she always followed the sun around the house to lay in it. After she was buried my mom had to talk him out of digging her up to move her to a sunnier spot.... and all this over a dog that was extremely dangerous.

there is no question that even when you have no other choice, the choice is still impossible to make.

From your account, which I fully believe, you didn't have a choice at all - but that doens't make what happened any easier.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:29 pm

clarity wrote:as i said, they were offered the full support of the forum, breed-savvy people, and a licensed veterinarian --

-- and brian never told me he about his shoot-to-kill mantra, either --


"the full support of the forum" does not help when a dog has you cornered with obvious intent to harm.

And your crap about him haveing a gun on him and shooting the dog as a last resort is getting tiresome.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:32 pm

msvette2u wrote:According to the Code of Ethics ME posted, the puppies probably shouldn't have been adopted out?

A. Strong preference for puppies that have both littermates and a temperament correct dam (See ITEM 1)
B. Will not rescue the puppies of a dam of incorrect temperament.


In my opinion, no, they shouldn't have.

There is no shortage of puppies in this world. Putting down a litter of puppies that is possibly unstable (as judged by the actions of the mother) is not the worst thing in the world, especially when there are plenty of puppies from stable mothers.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:36 pm

hoagiesmomma wrote:I felt the need to add to this discussion (sans flaming and cussing which are, btw, my specialties! ahahah) b/c I feel there is a piece of information missing here that all of you deserve to know about.


If you start that crap here you will be shown the door very quickly. We have a zero tolerance for it. Please feel free to state your opinion and ask questions, but be respectful and don't get personal and you are welcome.

hoagiesmomma wrote:you and your husband are unsuitable for the care of these largely sensitive, potentially dominant and strongwilled dogs.


That covers every breed of dog, from teacup poodles to Great Danes. The dog doesn't have to be big to be dominant and strong willed.
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Postby mnp13 » March 19th, 2006, 3:42 pm

hoagiesmomma wrote:I'm failing to see how you addressed the main thrust of my argument with this post...

for the number of dogs that d&b have owned...and the number who were so devastatingly aggressive...

am I the only one seeing a disconnect, here?


No, you're not the only one. I see a HUGE disconnect.

Why was Eric placing a mother dog and puppies with them if they have a history of having problems dealing with dogs?

Why did the shelter that is supposedly Pt Bull savvey and staffed with professional trainers and handlers handing over a human aggressive Pit Bull to a foster family without contacting the rescue and telling them the dog is aggressive?

Why was a mother dog and litter of puppies placed with very inexperienced people?

Yup, LOTS of disconnect here.
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