psa

Weight pull, Protection, Agility, Flyball... you name it!

Postby brooksybrooks1 » January 30th, 2007, 3:10 pm

so i just found out some interesting info on psa and i wanted to know if anyone could offer up some more. i don't know if this is for the whole sport or just regional or what, but i just found out that in the obedience through a crowd the dog has to be muzzled and that in the high level competition the dog has to be muzzled and sent on a decoy that all he's doing is sitting in a chair minding his own business.
two thoughts on this:
1. if your dog can't walk through a crowd without biting someone who's minding their own business and therefore requires a muzzle, what are you saying about your dog and your sport?
2. why would you ever teach your dog to attack someone who isn't doing anything? doesn't that make them pretty unsafe?
if these things are true i'm gonna have to reconsider my intended participation in psa, it seems a little rediculous!
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Postby mnp13 » January 30th, 2007, 3:18 pm

1. yes, a muzzle is required. Trials are just that, trials. Sometimes high stress on the dog and handler makes them act out. There has never been a bite in the crowd test, but it could happen and most clubs don't have 4 bitesuits for the crowd to wear. There was a ton of resistance to the new rule, but it is a safety measure.

2. What if that person was sitting in your house when you walked in the door? Or sitting on a park bench next you and points a knife at you? Or walks up behind you and demands your wallet? Or is a known person who decides to attack you or come in your house and rape you? I was assulted by someone I know, and if I had a dog at the time, that dog would have known that person as well. I would want my trained dog to take that person down if told to. I don't care who they are or what they are doing.

Crime statistics say that most personal crimes are committed by a known attacker. Most crimes do NOT include screaming, yelling and running. They are quiet, and dangerous. The dogs are sent by command, they don't just wildly attack. Many sports have an attack on a passive decoy.

Though PSA is a sport and not PP there are elements of "reality" to it.
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Postby DemoDick » January 30th, 2007, 10:03 pm

I don't think your questions come from a genuine desire to learn. You sound like you've made up your mind about the sport and want to criticize it. ASR features many of the same things you're concerned about, by the way.

Yes, the muzzle is required for the first portion of OB. PSA is asking people to stand in a circle with no protective equipment in the presence of a possibly unknown dog and handler. If I don't know the handler or the dog, and have never really watched the dog, I'd want it muzzled. Someone could concievably show up with a junkyard dog, "tease him up" out of sight of the trial field, and walk on to the field with him. PSA dogs as a general rule have VERY good control, as the sport demands it, especially in obedience. But you never know who may show up.

Second, a directed send on a passive decoy is an advanced exercise that shows a high level of training and control. It's easy to get a dog to engage a running, screaming decoy rattling a clatter stick. It's not so easy to get him to engage a passive, suited decoy. It's quite difficult to get the dog to send and engage in a muzzle when the "cues" (suit, sleeve, stick, screaming) are gone and the decoy just sits there. Teaching a dog to engage a passive decoy doesn't make him "dangerous", just like protection training itself doesn't make him "dangerous".

Jason Farrish's club in Utah has a few trial DVD's for sale online. I'd recommend you pick one up if you want to see what PSA really looks like.

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Postby katiek0417 » January 30th, 2007, 11:55 pm

I was told that the rule about the muzzle in the crowd was a result of an incident on the west coast. I do not know the specifics surrounding the incident, however, this is simply a safety measure. Michelle is right in saying that there is a ton of stress in a trial. My LAB went out for obedience, heard gunfire, and decided it was time to do bitework. NEVER did I think something like that would happen, she's a lab...but it was a trial...we were both stressed....

As far as the muzzle attack, please be informed that the dog does not HAVE to be muzzled and sent on a passive decoy. This is only 1 of several possible components that can be in the protection phase of the 3's, and not one that has been used too often in the past. This was taken directly from the rulebook:

PSA 3 Protection:

The protection phase will be 240 points (4 scenario exercises, 60 points each). The protection phase must include the following mandatory exercises; however, the judge is free to set-up the exercises in any context he/she wishes:

(1) Courage test with clatter-stick hits
(2) Call-off

Suggested Exercises:

2. Remote transports
3. Object guards
4. Muzzle attacks
5. Send to hold & bark with agitation.
6. Simple area searches
7. Multiple call-offs
8. Tests of nerve (heavy environmental distraction)

Please note the use of the word "SUGGESTED;" this does not mean you HAVE to have it in there.

Michelle and Demo make some excellent points in their posts. Teaching a dog to go after a passive decoy is not only a real-life safety measure, it does take a lot of training. In real life, a perp isn't going to come running at you with his arms waving and yelling. In my mind, a dog that will go after someone passive because you've given the command is a TRUE personal protection dog, and a dog that I'd much rather have around when I'm in my house alone at night.
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » February 1st, 2007, 12:38 am

i guess i agree to an extent, i think it's good that you can go send your dog on anyone regardless of whether or not they are agitating, because in real life they probably aren't going to be, but at the same time, i feel like the appropriate way of dealing with that would be a bark and hold. the dog goes up, sends a pretty clear message, and then if the person does something to warrant it the dog acts, but i don't believe that if the person is just standing there minding their own business they really should be attacked. training like that seems like a liability, like your dog won't know the difference between a threat and what's not a threat.
i agree that you should be able to send your dog on anyone anytime and that it does take a lot of training to get a dog there, but at the same time i feel like blindly sending a dog to attack someone who isn't doing anything to deserve it only teaches the dog that he can act upon an unneccessary show of force, and that it would in fact take much more control to send a dog on a bark and hold than to train them to just run in and try to maul someone minding their own business. most of the training my dog recieves is from people he knows well and he doesn't hesitate to put them in their place in training so i'm not too worried about him not attacking someone just because they are friends.
i can see the muzzling in the crowd as a safety measure, but i just kinda think that it could allow unsafe dogs to compete. i don't know. i'm not attacking the sport, i think there are several good things about it and many less formal, more realistic aspects of it than say sch, but i just need a little reassurance that this sport isn't fostering unbalanced dogs.
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Postby katiek0417 » February 1st, 2007, 8:12 am

On January 31 2007, 11:38 PM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:i guess i agree to an extent, i think it's good that you can go send your dog on anyone regardless of whether or not they are agitating, because in real life they probably aren't going to be, but at the same time, i feel like the appropriate way of dealing with that would be a bark and hold. the dog goes up, sends a pretty clear message, and then if the person does something to warrant it the dog acts, but i don't believe that if the person is just standing there minding their own business they really should be attacked. training like that seems like a liability, like your dog won't know the difference between a threat and what's not a threat.
i agree that you should be able to send your dog on anyone anytime and that it does take a lot of training to get a dog there, but at the same time i feel like blindly sending a dog to attack someone who isn't doing anything to deserve it only teaches the dog that he can act upon an unneccessary show of force, and that it would in fact take much more control to send a dog on a bark and hold than to train them to just run in and try to maul someone minding their own business. most of the training my dog recieves is from people he knows well and he doesn't hesitate to put them in their place in training so i'm not too worried about him not attacking someone just because they are friends.
i can see the muzzling in the crowd as a safety measure, but i just kinda think that it could allow unsafe dogs to compete. i don't know. i'm not attacking the sport, i think there are several good things about it and many less formal, more realistic aspects of it than say sch, but i just need a little reassurance that this sport isn't fostering unbalanced dogs.


Here is my question. What do you do if you walk in your house, someone is sitting on your couch (facing you), quietly, with a gun simply in his hand pointing towards the door? Do you really think a bark and hold is going to do the trick? The perp will probably just shoot your dog in it's head...so, that did a lot of good....now your dog is dead, and you still have the perp there who is probably getting ready to kill you....in my eyes, you should train for everything....

Having a muzzle on the dog doesn't mean that more unsafe dogs are going to compete...they still have to do an entire (really tough) obedience routine...both on and off-leash with a ton of distractions...in fact, you now lose points for anything less than an attention heel....if your dog is too slow in the motion exercises you lose points...if your dog is a tad wide on turns (and they've looked pretty good to me) you lose points. I've seen people get scores in the 80's for what looked like a pretty good routine (at least by my standards)...the fact is that during the figure 8, the dog has to CLOSELY go around people (if you do it too wide, you lose points)...let's say the person sneezes (or gets stung by a bee, whatever) and has to move very quickly that close to the dog....there is a possibility for the dog to bite....there was an "incident" on the west coast, but I don't beleive the dog bit....however, it could've turned into a bite....if people know it's a risk, they're not going to want to be a part of the group for the figure 8....

I have been a part of the figure 8 before....was I nervous? No, but I appreciate that the sport is looking out for their members' safety....I spend most trials now ON the trial field either stewarding or photographing the event (even during bitework)...I could get bit at any time, but after speaking with several judges and decoys I'm confident that PSA (and I'm sure other sports as well) cares about it's members and their safety...and will do whatever necessary to keep their members safe. I have even had judges tell me that (hypothetically) they would take a bite with no equipment if it was a difference between them getting bit or me - not that this has happened, but they're prepared for anything....I appreciate that....

Have you competed before? If not, then it's hard to know the stress that comes with competing. I'm a very calm person, I teach, I stand up in front of 40 people and lecture every day (okay, that's a lie, I don't teach on Thursdays, that's my day off)....I thought competing wouldn't be a problem....but when I've competed...well, let's just say I typically spend about a half hour beforehand in the bathroom puking my guts up....dogs feed off how their handlers feel....

I highly suggest you travel to some trials to see them firsthand, and speak to the competitors....you'll find that PSA is a good sport that cares about it's members and their safety. They care about the reputation of the sport, and the people competing in it aren't simply training instability....
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » February 1st, 2007, 3:17 pm

i planned on competing in an event in fort collins in september, and i'll talk to this guy john who is a decoy for the sport but who also trains with our schutzhund club more about it. i think that the biggest part of a bark and hold is that the dog holds the person still, if they make any movements or do anything shady, like try to shoot the dog or handler, the dog attacks, but at the same time there's two different commands for a b&h and just an attack, but usually an attack is associated with an attempted escape or an attack on the handler or the dog. i'm just more comfortable knowing that my dog doesn't think a stationary person is a threat. what if i came in and a friend of mine who i didn't expect to be there is sitting on my couch like in your scenario? i don't want my dog to attack him just because he's there and i'm surprised by his being there. i guess i'll just get to know it better and if i still don't agree with the muzzled attack in psa III i'll just not compete at that level.
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Postby mnp13 » February 1st, 2007, 3:40 pm

if your dog is unstable enough to view everyone and everything as a "bad guy" (suited, sleeved or in plain clothes) your dog has no business on a field competing in bitework or even training for bitework.

The idea behind a passive send is it is a directed send. If you want to participate in a sport that has no passive work that is fine. Many of the sports that lean more towards protection have hidden sleeve work or even hidden suit work.

The hidden suit is just that - a custom made suit that conforms to the body and is worn under normal clothes. In one DSO senario there was a suited decoy and a decoy in a hidden suit, and you had to send your dog on the one in the hidden suit - with the suited decoy in full view of the dog and yelling.

No one is asking the dog to make a decision on its own to attack or not attack. A correctly trained dog will NOT alert on a passive person unless directed to. personally I am very against non-social dogs being trained in any sort of bitework, but that is only a personal feeling and certinaly not "the rule." A few people compete in PSA with non-social dogs, and they are VERY well controlled on the field and closely managed off of the field. It's the people who don't have that iron control that are a liability, but there are idiots in every sport - so the obedience necessary to compete helps weed them out.

I'll try to find the list of galleries from PSA nationals in 2005, they clearly show the control that the dogs have to exhibit during the obedience portion, including downing infront of a passive decoy, heeling between decoys that are agitating them, refusing food from a decoy 2 feet away and other things.

In my opinion, the B&H is impractical in PP type sports. It's flashy, but if you had to really use your dog the odds are that a "bad guy" is NOT going to stand like a statue with a dog 2 feet away barking. Some dogs do a "bouncing" B&H, some leap right up and clack their teeth in the decoy's face. It's scarey even when you are in a full suit. I can't imagine the fear that would come off of a regular person in the same situation.

The B&H employed by true working canines is not 2 feet away from the bad guy, it is farther to protect the dog. If a suspect is armed the farther away the dog is hopefully the safer the dog is. If that subject runs in fear, they are in a world of hurt.

The DSO has a senario with a directed send into a group of decoys and the dog has to understand which person is the threat and bite that decoy and that decoy only. They also have a senario where you have to hand your dog off to a decoy to be led off of the field. (Riggs didn't do so well with that one. :oops: )

I don't want my dog to attack the McDonalds employee who hands me my food at the drive through, but he had better attack someone reaching into my car with bad intentions. That person may not be screaming, they may just stick a weapon in your face and order you out of the car. I sure would be using a directed send in that situation!
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Postby katiek0417 » February 1st, 2007, 4:33 pm

On February 01 2007, 2:17 PM, brooksybrooks1 wrote:i planned on competing in an event in fort collins in september, and i'll talk to this guy john who is a decoy for the sport but who also trains with our schutzhund club more about it. i think that the biggest part of a bark and hold is that the dog holds the person still, if they make any movements or do anything shady, like try to shoot the dog or handler, the dog attacks, but at the same time there's two different commands for a b&h and just an attack, but usually an attack is associated with an attempted escape or an attack on the handler or the dog. i'm just more comfortable knowing that my dog doesn't think a stationary person is a threat. what if i came in and a friend of mine who i didn't expect to be there is sitting on my couch like in your scenario? i don't want my dog to attack him just because he's there and i'm surprised by his being there. i guess i'll just get to know it better and if i still don't agree with the muzzled attack in psa III i'll just not compete at that level.


You MAY NOT see a muzzle attack in the level 3...it is SUGGESTED, but not used often....in fact, I am currently training a dog for the 3's, and I brought up that we had to teach a muzzle attack (if the dog didn't already know it), and Greg (my boyfriend and trainer, who has, by the way, titled more dogs in PSA than any other person) said I'd be more likely to see other scenarios than that particular one...

Oh, and, in my scenario...you "send" the dog....with a command...my dogs NEVER make the decision for themselves...

Also, what "John" are you speaking of? According to my list, there is no certified PSA decoy named John in Colorado...so, I'm just wondering if an updated list needs to be posted (as we are currently calling people to decoy our trial as I'm sure other people are also doing)...

As far as pics, you can go to this site, and see the pics from last year's (2006) Nationals (and hopefully Michelle will find her gallery from last year):

http://www.metropolitank9.com/NationalsPics.htm

If you pay close attention to Tom/Bullet, Rich/Trixie, and Trudy/Nantan, these are the level 3 dogs that competed (there were no muzzle attacks in the National Event). Here is a breakdown:

Level 1 Novice:
Tim/Moose
Greg/Asja
Paula/Ciko
Roger/Orion
Oscar/Scarface
Dwayne/Blanka
Daphne/Gunner

Level 1 Open:
George/Alliti
Mark/Kelev
Chris/Bart
Rip/Scooby

Level 2:
Jon/Heiko
Ebony/Syco
Tom/Brownie

I've already listed the 3's....

Happy Viewing!!!
Last edited by katiek0417 on February 1st, 2007, 5:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mnp13 » February 1st, 2007, 4:45 pm

There are about 20 galleries, but here are the only ones I can find here.

I'll have to type them all out again. Yuk

http://www.grastaleather.com/JenCurtis/
http://www.grastaleather.com/TimSantos/
http://www.grastaleather.com/BillyMickey/


Here are my DSO pictures:
http://www.pitbulltalk.com/galleries/DSO/beginner/
http://www.pitbulltalk.com/galleries/DSO/intermediate
http://www.pitbulltalk.com/galleries/DSO/advanced

The DSO is definately very different than PSA (I have only been there once, but have been told a lot about the different senarios, etc). The DSO is more about practicle use of a PP dog, whereas PSA tends to be more sport oriented and uses many versions of the "courage test" in the senarios.

My DSO writeups:
http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=88676
http://www.pitbulltalk.com/viewtopic.php?p=70626
I never did the advanced, my bad
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Postby GregMK9 » February 1st, 2007, 10:38 pm

Brooksy,
You make valid points. And everyone else who responded did a great job of explaining reasons for passive bites.
However, I think what you are overlooking is the fact that the level 3's is the top level in PSA. If you've made it that far then you are a very good trainer,with a very good dog, belong to a very knowledgeable club, with experienced decoys.
With that being said, some of the scenario's in the level 3's may seem utterly ridiculous and not realistic. The reason for this is there has to be a way to seperate handler/ dog teams in a competition.
If a dog makes it to this level, you can rest a sure that that dog has the utmost control. If not, the dogs are dismissed from the field.
Another thing you seem to overlook is the fact that a passive bite/ muzzle attack is nothing more then obedience. That's right, sit means sit, down means down, and bite means bite! A protection dog should never be allowed to make a judgement call, especially one that involves bitting.So, if I tell you to bite then by all means, bite! But if I didn't give the bite command then you better not go. And believe me, I've owned/ own some very high drive dogs.
The control in PSA is everything and control (not bitework) is what wins trials.
The same concerns you have with a passive muzzle attack can also be applied to a send on a fleeing decoy. One, it's illegal to send a dog on a fleeing person so why do it?. It could also be said that sending a dog on a fleeing decoy will make them want to run down an innocent kid/teen and bite them just because they are playing a friendly game of tag. Sounds ridiculous, huh?
Hope this helps to clear things up a little.
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Postby brooksybrooks1 » February 2nd, 2007, 3:10 pm

i definately appreciate all the responses. i'll check out those links when i get a minute to look at them. maybe john isn't an actual psa decoy, i know he trains for it with his own dog and i know he is involved in psa and has worked with my dog, but i've only met him once. like i said, i don't know much about it and i plan to go hang out with him a bit because to the best of my knowledge he does know something about it and has experience, and i've seen him work dogs and he does really well. thanks for the info!
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Postby mnp13 » February 2nd, 2007, 3:53 pm

I have never met John, however, "just decoying" for training is far from "being a PSA decoy." If that were the case, then you could consider me a PSA decoy - and I'm far from it (as a few people here know! lol Hey, I can only do my best... in a short sleeve jacket and pants that are 6 inches too long no less! )

I would be very surprised if he felt that an attack on a passive person was unsafe - for a dog that is that level of course.

Look at your own post here:
On January 22 2007, 22:42, brooksybrooks1 wrote:i took a bite from knox once, he was a little confused like, "hey, i thought we were bff?!" and then he did not hesitate! i like to think he took it easy on me, but it was a really cool experience. neither of us held a grudge!

You took a bite from a directed send by a dog that you know well. The dog didn't just "decide" to attack you. He was told to and his bite training overrode his "friendship" with you. That is not much different than a muzzle send on a passive decoy.

Demo works Riggs, and then horses around with him in my home. Chris has worked Riggs and Riggs wouldn't cross him for a steak, but when told to bite, he bites.

Like I said earlier, I feel that your dog even thinks about going after a passive person without a clear order to do so, I don't think that the dog has any business being trained in bitework. That is just a personal opinion, many people disagree with me and that's cool. Non-social dogs aren't a danger in the right hands, but in the right hands is essential.
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Postby katiek0417 » February 2nd, 2007, 6:36 pm

On February 02 2007, 2:53 PM, mnp13 wrote:I have never met John, however, "just decoying" for training is far from "being a PSA decoy." If that were the case, then you could consider me a PSA decoy - and I'm far from it (as a few people here know! lol Hey, I can only do my best... in a short sleeve jacket and pants that are 6 inches too long no less! )

I would be very surprised if he felt that an attack on a passive person was unsafe - for a dog that is that level of course.

Look at your own post here:
On January 22 2007, 22:42, brooksybrooks1 wrote:i took a bite from knox once, he was a little confused like, "hey, i thought we were bff?!" and then he did not hesitate! i like to think he took it easy on me, but it was a really cool experience. neither of us held a grudge!

You took a bite from a directed send by a dog that you know well. The dog didn't just "decide" to attack you. He was told to and his bite training overrode his "friendship" with you. That is not much different than a muzzle send on a passive decoy.

Demo works Riggs, and then horses around with him in my home. Chris has worked Riggs and Riggs wouldn't cross him for a steak, but when told to bite, he bites.

Like I said earlier, I feel that your dog even thinks about going after a passive person without a clear order to do so, I don't think that the dog has any business being trained in bitework. That is just a personal opinion, many people disagree with me and that's cool. Non-social dogs aren't a danger in the right hands, but in the right hands is essential.


Michelle, you make some excellent points.

I know plenty of people who "decoy" PSA style, but it does not give them the experience that a certified decoy has. A certified decoy has to decoy in 2 trials per year to remain certified (or else has to re-certify), and very few decoys certify their first time around (as I'm sure you know, Michelle).

Michelle, another good point that you make is about working dogs you know. Granted my dogs aren't at a high level, but Greg and I live together, he is a disciplinarian to my dogs, but he still works them...
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Postby Leslie H » February 2nd, 2007, 10:38 pm

i'm pretty sure Mondioring has a passive bite too.
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Postby DemoDick » February 3rd, 2007, 1:10 am

Just to add to what Michelle wrote about the B & H...I would NEVER send my dog in to do a B & H on a REAL bad guy. It's a sport exercise demonstrating simultaneous power and control, but in the real world a sport-type "B & H" inevitably ends up becoming a Bark and Bite for the reasons Michelle posted. No one is going to stand still with a dog barking at them unless all of the following conditions are met.

First, the bad guy must be instructed to "stand still" by the handler and must understand the order to do so. Second, the bad guy must be smart and calm enough to comply with the order (good luck with this one!). Third, the dog must perform the exercise at a distance that won't cause the bad guy to attempt flight. Finally, the dog must be unfailingly clean in the performance. Those are a lot of conditions, and if any one of them is not met, you will end up with a bite. I'm of the mindset that we should leave the bark and hold where it belongs, on the sport field.

A protection dog should never be allowed to make a judgement call, especially one that involves bitting.


Oh, I don't know Greg. I'm pretty sure that If I cold-cocked you while you had Jue on leash I'd need a trip to the ER and a big bottle of vicodin whether you told him to bite me or not. :) That's different than a send though, and I do agree with you if the bad guy is far enough away.

i'm just more comfortable knowing that my dog doesn't think a stationary person is a threat. what if i came in and a friend of mine who i didn't expect to be there is sitting on my couch like in your scenario? i don't want my dog to attack him just because he's there and i'm surprised by his being there.


Leaf blowers and running hoses are commonly used distractions in PSA bitework. Does that mean that every dog PSA 1 and above is going to attack the gardener?

i guess i'll just get to know it better and if i still don't agree with the muzzled attack in psa III i'll just not compete at that level.


No disrespect intended, but a PSA 3 is notoriously difficult to attain. To even be able to try for one you need to get a 2 which is just too much for most people. The obedience is the hardest I've seen outside of KNPV and to be quite honest if you can get a dog into competition for a PSA 3 then you should make dog training your primary employment.

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Postby brooksybrooks1 » February 5th, 2007, 5:35 pm

i think you definately all make good points. tre is extremely social and safe, and the whole concern isn't that i think he could flyoff the handle and bite someone, but that by learning to attack someone passive he would get confused about threat vs no threat.
i'm sure i won't have to worry about the psa III for a long time if at all, but training is already my primary employment, so i'm always getting a lot of handling practice. we'll see.
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Postby GregMK9 » February 5th, 2007, 11:02 pm

But I've actually had a very tough time with that very scenario. Because Jue's obedience is so strong I'm having a hard time getting him to leave a down stay to come help me without calling him first. He'll start to get up, then right back down. We are working on it though.lol
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
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Postby DemoDick » February 6th, 2007, 12:23 am

...the whole concern isn't that i think he could flyoff the handle and bite someone, but that by learning to attack someone passive he would get confused about threat vs no threat.


I think you're confused here. Your dog is not going to see a passive person as a threat unless you specifically teach him to and then let him decide to take the person out himself.

It is a directed bite. That is, the dog is directed to engage the passive decoy. It's a tough thing to teach a dog, because he doesn't get any "fuel" (movement, vocalization) from the decoy. That's why it was in the 3's and not a lower level.

Your dog will not become confused about threat vs no threat unless you teach him to make the decision to bite a passive person on his own. If the dog looks to you for direction on who to bite and when, he won't become a liability and try to eat someone sitting on your couch.

But I've actually had a very tough time with that very scenario. Because Jue's obedience is so strong I'm having a hard time getting him to leave a down stay to come help me without calling him first. He'll start to get up, then right back down. We are working on it though.


I was thinking more along the lines of an attack on handler while heeling. I bet the bad guy gets bit before you can give the command. :)

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Postby GregMK9 » February 6th, 2007, 7:45 pm

"I bet the bad guy gets bit before you can give the command".

Yes, on an attack from hiding with yelling and charging, he will likely go on his own. However, we do a lot of training with the decoy running and yelling out of a blind. Not directly at us, but angling toward slightly toward us. He is not allowed to go unless I send him. In fact, in this situation he will only glance away for a second. But I'll correct hm for that.
Because of the way Jue was when I got him I had to put that kind of control on him. Even when just at home and he's just hanging out. If I give a command, I'm just as strict with it as I would be if I were getting ready for a trial.
Greg

He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion."
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