dogcrazyjen wrote:Exactly reba. Bitework is a chosen action, not a breed of dog. Bitework can be discouraged with pits without damaging anything. Banning pits is basically damning a whole breed to extinction, and screwing the majority of owners based on fear and quite frankly incorrect information like locking jaws. Apples and oranges.
Again, I am not saying that anyone wants to ban
bitework, I am saying that the arguements against bitework sound a LOT like the arguements for BSL. BSL is based on fear and lack of knowledge, some of the posts have seemed to be quite fearful. And many of the posts show a lack of knowledge of what responsible training entails and lack of understanding of the fundamentals of bitework training. There have been lots of questions, and that's great... I hope it leads to better understanding. (Please don't misread this paragraph, I am not saying anyone is stupid. there is a huge difference between not haveing experience with something and not being intelligent.)
You could say that many things are judged by the actions of a few, from gun ownership to all men being treated as potential rapists to lawn darts to banning cell phones in cars. Some have merit, some do not. That does not mean they are all the same, just because the means for deciding are the same. Lawn darts were not acceptable because the risk was deemed as far outweighing the good. Guns hopefully that is not going to happen.
That's the thing. If people are too irresponsible to not throw a pointed piece of metal at someone maybe they need to sit out a game or two. I could wing a bocce ball at someone's head and hurt them as well. At some point personal responsibility needs to come into play.
I think that for every Chris there will be a dozen jack a$$es giving pits a bad name. And even with Chris, I am on the fence as far as total good vs total potential bad PR.
and for everyone of us who are responsible Pit Bull owners there are a dozen idiot owners who are accidents waiting to happen.
So is everyone who does bitework as aware of their surroundings as you are?
if they are responsible, yes. Is everyone who has a deadly dog aggressive dog as aware of their surroundings as some of the people here? We all have to hope.
Pits are not getting bad raps due to dog aggression, they are getting bad raps due to people aggression.
I disagree. "Pit Bull kills small fluffy dog" headlines are not uncommon. Of course, the next idiot comment is "the kids are next"
and many dogs are killed for dog aggression.
What we are talking about it using PP to counteract bite inhibition in dogs that are able and possibly create breed lines based on that lack. And having the average idiot think that anyone can do this.
I don't understand. there are people who have said that their dog is so solid it would never ever bite a person no matter what the circumstances. you can't make
a dog have the correct temperament for bittework. It's there or it isn't (it can be fostered, but that's a different topic).
There are plenty of breed lines who have wildly aggressive dogs who no PP responsible trainer would go near. those dogs don't need training to bite someone, they are so unstable that they will bite anything that moves. Those dogs are NOT bitework candidates.
Aggression comes from fear, not confidence.*
. The best dogs in protection sport are not the aggressive ones, they are the confident ones
In protection work, there is a command "watch him". Ideally the dog starts barking, pulling and sometimes jumping in the direction of the "bad guy". Some tournaments score the dog on the "threat display". the very confident dogs score poorly in this exercise because they don't want to give a threat display. They want
the bad guy to come closer, they don't want to scare him off. That is confidence. Threat displays mean "don't come any closer or I'll hurt you", it's a warning and it is meant to scare the other party away.
the snarling, lunging, insane dog behind the fence is not strong and confident, it is aggressive and afraid. It wants to scare you away, not confront you.
(To the trainers out there, please correct me if this is wrong.)
I do like that about this board, that we can discuss these things without it getting personal. I am enjoying this discussion, and I hope we can all keep this going as civily as we are.
I'm glad to read this comment, it is one of the things the staff has discussed in depth. We are all about intense, even heated, discussion. But no one learns when people are screaming at them (and yes, I have done plenty of screaming in my time)
Way to all-encompassing statement that was not correctly stated nor explained well... sorry