On October 13 2007, 09:54, Nelson wrote:I found it curious that no one mentioned or talked about this point. I have stated for years how dog training differs from 1 philosophy to another. And lately with the ecollar, trainers have forgotten on how the dog's mind really works. And from good old-fashioned training (where the dog taught the "how" & and the "why" of it), many trainers have regressed to "animal tamers".
Old circus animal tamers would tie up wild animals and whip the daylights out of the animals (lions, tigers, etc) and MAKE them obey. Same thing we see today with modern "trainers" (a word we have to use lightly) where their philosophy is put the collar on and Choke or Zap the bejeezuz out of the poor dog.
We can't forget that our dogs can NOT pick us owners and trainers. So as the owner of your dog it's your responsibility to safeguard him/her from any adversity.
While I have never used an e-collar to teach the out, I know some people who have and have gotten good, reliable results - without "shocking the bejeezuz out of them". It is not the training method of choice for many trainers, but that does not make it a "bad" method. Any training method can be abusive, it just depends on what you consider to be
There are extremely well respected, credentialed and accomplished trainers who use methods that I don't particularly like, though they are far from "regressing to animal tamers." Their dogs perform willingly and reliably, not from fear.
You can use an e-collar to deliver corrections that are as mild as a finger twitch correction with a leash, or you can make a dog scream in pain - it all depends on what you choose to do... personally, I consider the second to be completely unnessary 99% of the time, but there may be cases where it needs to be done; extremely dangerous, self rewarding behaviors come immediately to mind on this one.
As for choking the dog off of the bite / toy / whatever is in their mouth; did I try it? Yup. I hated doing it but I was also at my wit's end. When some of the best out there tell you that it works sometimes you need to give it a go. I know of more than one trainer who only had to do it once and that was the end of it. It didn't work with Riggs at all, and I gave up on it pretty quickly - it just wasn't worth it to me. I eventually found a method that was somewhat reliable, though not completely... it's all a process.