Positive vs. Negative; Reinforcement vs. Punishment

[Malli]

I made myself unclear, I think...

All positive, all the time, until the dog knows the command all the time.

Then I begin to weed out the reward every time, if the dog does not respond, he gets a correction, if he responds, I throw a party and give the reward.

Gradually I expect a consistent response and will only offer an occaisional physical reward and of course -for me- always praise.

And then you have my dog who turns his head away during distance work

[katiek0417]

I made myself unclear, I think...

All positive, all the time, until the dog knows the command all the time.

Then I begin to weed out the reward every time, if the dog does not respond, he gets a correction, if he responds, I throw a party and give the reward.

Gradually I expect a consistent response and will only offer an occaisional physical reward and of course -for me- always praise.

And then you have my dog who turns his head away during distance work

Do you have a "watch me" command

[a-bull]

I made myself unclear, I think...

All positive, all the time, until the dog knows the command all the time.

Then I begin to weed out the reward every time, if the dog does not respond, he gets a correction, if he responds, I throw a party and give the reward.

Gradually I expect a consistent response and will only offer an occaisional physical reward and of course -for me- always praise.

And then you have my dog who turns his head away during distance work

Do you have a "watch me" command

That's what I was going to say, too. My favorite command for getting attention.

[Malli]

not exactly, I've had trouble marking it and making it clear to him what I want.

He does know that he is supposed to watch me when I work him, I think.

I kind of thought of a way to start it when we play fetch (wich isn't often enough), since he is getting older he will hold a sit or "wait" while I throw the ball until it lands and slows down (I'm cruciate paranoid), I tried waiting until he looked at me to release him to go and get the ball He seemed to figure it out...

I have ALWAYS had trouble maintaining his focus... "formal" heal has been a big issue and I think its why I haven't been able to smooth out all the rough edges and perfect it.

[a-bull]

not exactly, I've had trouble marking it and making it clear to him what I want.

He does know that he is supposed to watch me when I work him, I think.

I kind of thought of a way to start it when we play fetch (wich isn't often enough), since he is getting older he will hold a sit or "wait" while I throw the ball until it lands and slows down (I'm cruciate paranoid), I tried waiting until he looked at me to release him to go and get the ball He seemed to figure it out...

I have ALWAYS had trouble maintaining his focus... "formal" heal has been a big issue and I think its why I haven't been able to smooth out all the rough edges and perfect it.

Take a treat, and as you say "watch me" put the treat to your nose. The minute he makes eye contact with you give him the reward. You can even mark the behavior with a "Yes!" or a clicker if you use one, (I don't, although I like clicker training). Keep doing it, making him hold his gaze longer and longer. What should happen eventually is anytime, anywhere you tell him to "watch me," he should immediately look to you.

This command works so well in so many situations. Oh, and same concept we talked about earlier---I STILL will give a treat now 'n then for performing the command just to etch it in stone because it's such an important one.

[katiek0417]

I also train the dog sitting in front at first....and i typically like to use food (that is human edible) so that I can put it in my mouth eventually and have the dog catch it....I'm getting ready to work dogs, so more on this later...

[katiek0417]

Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....

[a-bull]

Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....

I think my way was easier, . . .

[katiek0417]

Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....

I think my way was easier, . . .

I have to have an attention heel for PSA, so this was the only way I could get it out of Sacha...

[Malli]

they're all unique

I say you're BOTH right, for your dogs

[a-bull]

Okay, now I have time...this is how I taught the lab:

First I taught her how to catch treats...I started with the treat navel height...and dropped it down to her...then kept moving it up...finally I would put the food in my mouth and drop it from my mouth (this way it came from "god" and not my hand)...you'll want to use something human edible for this...

To teach "watch me" I sat Sacha down in front of me, and made a funny noise...when she looked up, I said good "watch me" and spit the food at her...I did this several times until I could say watch me, and have her look at me...then I extended the duration...then I moved her to the heel position, and did it...then I put the stay in it....

Also, I don't demand that the dog watch me if I'm far away b/c sometimes I'm out of sight...I just demand that the dog don't sniff the ground....

I think my way was easier, . . .

I have to have an attention heel for PSA, so this was the only way I could get it out of Sacha...

Hey, whatever works!

[a-bull]

they're all unique

I say you're BOTH right, for your dogs

Let's face it, in the end, who's teaching who??

[Malli]

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S

[a-bull]

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S

Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, . . .

[katiek0417]

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S

Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, . . .

Do you have a poop eating issue as well?

[a-bull]

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S

Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, . . .

Do you have a poop eating issue as well?

Oddly, not until they freeze, .

[katiek0417]

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S

Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, . . .

Do you have a poop eating issue as well?

Oddly, not until they freeze, .

OHHHH...I'm really not sure what's worse!!! LOL

[a-bull]

well really.... the answer is O-B-V-I-O-U-S

Well, my girl just got done eating a poopsicle despite my best "leave it," so who the heck am I to say, . . .

Do you have a poop eating issue as well?

Oddly, not until they freeze, .

OHHHH...I'm really not sure what's worse!!! LOL

Apparently according to our dogs, none of the above, !